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[Music]

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hello and welcome to the show i'm martin

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willis your host and we have a new start

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time for those of you who are watching

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this live

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it's going to be this time um from here

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on out uh the six o'clock start time has

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always been difficult for me because of

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what i do for

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a real job for one thing a lot of times

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i i run late or run right up to the

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deadline another thing is a lot of my

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guests

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are on the west coast which means that

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they would have had to start at 3 p.m in

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the afternoon a lot of people have

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actually turned down being on my show

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because it's too early for them

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because they have a job and things like

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that

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the only uh

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place it hurts at all is when i talk

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with someone in europe

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it was a little bit easier in that case

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so i am switching to seven o'clock so

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it's going to be on

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kgra radio from seven to eight every

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week i may go longer on the live uh with

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some of the guests

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and uh this uh this day is no exception

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with my good friend lee spiegel uh you

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may know of him from the huffington post

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he was uh writing there for years but

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he's also known all the way back into

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the 1970s he brought ufos to the un

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and we're going to be talking tonight

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about this great album that he has that

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he shared with me and this was in

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interviews that he did with key people

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back in 1975

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he was released in 1976 i believe he may

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correct me on some of that we have a

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couple of clips we're going to play from

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that

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this week's

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blog by charles lear is a ufo and

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occupants in british columbia canada

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charles lear has been writing blogs uh

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consistently for us for

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several years i really appreciate his

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great work he also has a book out i

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encourage anyone

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that would like to get his book and it

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is called the flying saucer

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investigators he was on here as a guest

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and we were talking about that but he

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does great work it's a great book i'm

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getting a lot of feedback about his book

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a lot of people really love it

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and without further ado i'd like to

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bring in my friend lee welcome lee well

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thank you martin for inviting me on i

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was i was curious when are you going to

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tell the the audience

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about your day job working in the

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intelligence community for the

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government eventually

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eventually i will you know along with uh

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yeah richard doughty and those other

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people i work with yes

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well we need to know what you know yeah

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that's right

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yeah no i don't think there'll be any

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surprises like that coming out of me but

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uh but you know you never know you just

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might have started something a rumor and

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now it's you know ufo twitter i can't

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wait to see have we we've opened the

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martin willis pandora's box that's right

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that's right so you've had a couple of

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changes lately and you're on unix how do

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you say that is that did i pronounce

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that correctly no it's home it's

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actually an x on x yeah just just the

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letters on x which really kind of stands

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for unexplained

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and so it kind of encompasses

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all things paranormal so i not only

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am i doing my own show there now uh on

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thursday nights but i'm also the

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managing editor for the unex magazine

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that is a quarterly uh issue

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and i've had some really interesting

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stories so far i've uh what i've brought

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to the magazine was instead of just

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writing a story like i used to do with

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the huffington post

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um i i i'm offering

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uh for the monthly well it's not a

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monthly it's a quarterly issue each

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issue will have basically the interview

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of the issue

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and and i'm choosing really interesting

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who i think are newsmakers in the field

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of paranormal ufos

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and and in fact uh you are familiar with

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the gentleman who is my interview

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subject in the current issue that just

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came out the overall theme of the

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magazine is time travel

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and my interview is with montana tech

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archaeologist anthropologist dr michael

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masters

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yes great guy

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he's going to be coming up on the show

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in the next uh i think the next month or

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so at some point yeah he's he's very

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funny he's very interesting and what a

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theory he has a really great

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theory i mean it's as good if you ask me

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as goes good as any other theory that's

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out there he he has he's he's opened my

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eyes

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uh you know i've actually gone through

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changes or my attitude about ufos over

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the last 50 years that i've been

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involved with reading and researching

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and

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about ufos

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and and i remember when i first started

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out my attitude was oh they must be from

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alpha centauri

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they must be from the pleiades or why

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not zeta reticuli yeah uh

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and and my attitude was

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this technology must mean they have to

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be coming from other planets now

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i've sort of modified that

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i think that some

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ufos like uh our old friend nuclear

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physicist stan friedman you used to say

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and says on the album that we're talking

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about tonight he starts it off by saying

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some ufos

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are uh definitely you know intelligently

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controlled extraterrestrial vehicles yes

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uh and i believe that i don't think all

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unexplained ufos are that because

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geez as we now know

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is there anybody out there who hasn't

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yet seen

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the new images from the james webb space

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telescope they're just beautiful wow

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yeah i mean this this to me

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if anyone ever says to me hey what do

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you think is proof that we're not out

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that we're not alone

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that's proof

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look at the images and what it's showing

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and it will make

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all of us seem

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so

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insignificant i was going to say

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insignificant but maybe that's not the

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appropriate word

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to use because i don't want us to think

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that we're insignificant

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but

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oh my god

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the images are now showing and and the

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scientists

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are saying

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without denying it yeah we're definitely

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not alone because look at who our

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neighbors are they're everywhere

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everywhere we look now and now we can

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see right there we're looking at a very

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very

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tiny tiny

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grain of sand

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image

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of outer space that shows

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thousands of galaxies

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and and people have to understand if

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they don't know what a galaxy is

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we live on a planet our planet is one of

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several that is in orbit around what we

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call the sun but the sun is a star

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we know that galaxies are made up of

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like billions and billions of stars and

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now astronomy is telling us

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those billions and billions of stars in

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each galaxy

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contain

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they have planets orbiting them

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and and so the numbers are are so s

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it's not scattered it's just

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mind-boggling we we almost can't

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conceive

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of what we're talking about here that

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that we

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i don't think anybody

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that logically thinks about this will

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say yeah we're the only ones out here no

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we couldn't possibly been

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would a creator of the entire universe

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have only chosen our little planet

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among other planets are going around one

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star among the billions and trillions of

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stars and galaxies why would the creator

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have chosen only our little planet on

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which to put intelligent life

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right can't agree you can't agree i

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always love this arthur c clarke

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um saying oh your possibilities could

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exist either we're alone in the universe

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or we're not both are equally terrifying

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yeah

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it's like wow we have to

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we have to grow up

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uh to the possibility that that we're

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not alone and

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back in 1968

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at the at the air force academy uh in

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colorado springs in a in a textbook a

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science textbook that was only seen by

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air force cadets you know our future

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military leaders

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and the the science physics textbook

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which was called

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introductory space science chapter 33

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was titled unidentified flying objects

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and in this chapter in 1968 the air

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force

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described to their cadets

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very strong cases of where humans

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humankind mankind has been

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reporting and interacting with

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unidentified objects going back almost

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50 000 years

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and they s they outline and spell this

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out to the cadets well if that's true

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if humans have been seeing these things

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in the skies and reporting these things

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and people are now seeing and reporting

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the same things what are we talking

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about are we it's it's no longer valid

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to say oh it must be the angels of the

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lord or must be the gods no because we

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don't think like that anymore

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we think

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is part of our own reality

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yeah

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that's a really good point because you

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know i mean

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there's uh you know the talk of of

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fairies and the talk of you know all the

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way along leprechauns maybe even that's

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you know who knows yeah uh but the the

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it kind of fits the times whatever yes

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societal times are um

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so i you know here's a question i i

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don't believe in all these years that

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we've talked and known each other i

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don't believe i've ever asked you this

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question oh maybe i have

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[Laughter]

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all right

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are you an american no um

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all right

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what got you interested i know you

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started you were in the 70s you were

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interested in this topic and doing

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amazing work we'll talk about that in a

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few minutes but what got your interest

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to very begin with how old were you when

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you first

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were fascinated with this topic

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well i'm going to say that i first began

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to

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hear about it in the news

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around

283
00:11:59,990 --> 00:11:57,680
71

284
00:12:01,430 --> 00:12:00,000
um when a book

285
00:12:03,590 --> 00:12:01,440
actually know maybe a little earlier the

286
00:12:07,910 --> 00:12:03,600
book called the interrupted journey by

287
00:12:10,710 --> 00:12:07,920
john fuller yep in which he described

288
00:12:11,509 --> 00:12:10,720
the amazing story of betty and barney

289
00:12:13,110 --> 00:12:11,519
hill

290
00:12:15,509 --> 00:12:13,120
of new hampshire and i grew up in new

291
00:12:17,670 --> 00:12:15,519
hampshire and in fact i went to college

292
00:12:18,710 --> 00:12:17,680
just a few miles south

293
00:12:21,670 --> 00:12:18,720
of where

294
00:12:25,030 --> 00:12:21,680
their close encounter abduction whatever

295
00:12:27,509 --> 00:12:25,040
the incident was happened and when the

296
00:12:29,430 --> 00:12:27,519
story broke it broke first in new

297
00:12:31,269 --> 00:12:29,440
hampshire and became a big story before

298
00:12:34,310 --> 00:12:31,279
it went national

299
00:12:35,750 --> 00:12:34,320
because it was really the first story

300
00:12:38,150 --> 00:12:35,760
of anyone

301
00:12:40,710 --> 00:12:38,160
in america i believe where somebody

302
00:12:43,269 --> 00:12:40,720
actually claimed to have been abducted

303
00:12:45,670 --> 00:12:43,279
or kidnapped and taken aboard either a

304
00:12:48,389 --> 00:12:45,680
ship or taken somewhere

305
00:12:51,430 --> 00:12:48,399
uh where they were

306
00:12:53,030 --> 00:12:51,440
they were put under examination by some

307
00:12:54,870 --> 00:12:53,040
kind of beings

308
00:12:56,870 --> 00:12:54,880
and there's that's probably an updated

309
00:12:58,550 --> 00:12:56,880
version of the book

310
00:13:00,389 --> 00:12:58,560
uh from the original

311
00:13:02,150 --> 00:13:00,399
and uh it

312
00:13:04,310 --> 00:13:02,160
i i became very very good friends with

313
00:13:06,710 --> 00:13:04,320
betty hill this was after barney had

314
00:13:08,870 --> 00:13:06,720
passed away and she and i became friends

315
00:13:11,829 --> 00:13:08,880
in 1975

316
00:13:13,829 --> 00:13:11,839
when i was working on my

317
00:13:15,509 --> 00:13:13,839
my documentary record that we'll talk

318
00:13:17,910 --> 00:13:15,519
about later

319
00:13:20,389 --> 00:13:17,920
and just just to meet her and to get to

320
00:13:22,069 --> 00:13:20,399
know her and spend time with her and and

321
00:13:23,350 --> 00:13:22,079
you and i are also

322
00:13:26,310 --> 00:13:23,360
friends with

323
00:13:28,870 --> 00:13:26,320
uh a woman who's probably the the most

324
00:13:31,509 --> 00:13:28,880
knowledgeable expert in the whole betty

325
00:13:35,590 --> 00:13:31,519
and barney story uh would be kathleen

326
00:13:38,550 --> 00:13:35,600
martin yeah uh kathleen who is an expert

327
00:13:40,949 --> 00:13:38,560
in her own right in people who are now

328
00:13:43,030 --> 00:13:40,959
who call they're called experiencers

329
00:13:45,110 --> 00:13:43,040
people who have had the close encounter

330
00:13:47,509 --> 00:13:45,120
of the third kind experience

331
00:13:48,389 --> 00:13:47,519
uh but what people don't know unless you

332
00:13:51,509 --> 00:13:48,399
tell them

333
00:13:54,230 --> 00:13:51,519
is kathy martin was the niece of betty

334
00:13:56,389 --> 00:13:54,240
and barney hill yeah and and so when

335
00:13:59,030 --> 00:13:56,399
betty and barney returned home

336
00:14:01,829 --> 00:13:59,040
having lost two hours of time

337
00:14:05,030 --> 00:14:01,839
somewhere along the journey from canada

338
00:14:07,590 --> 00:14:05,040
to portsmouth new hampshire

339
00:14:09,590 --> 00:14:07,600
the first person that betty called when

340
00:14:11,990 --> 00:14:09,600
she got back to their home

341
00:14:13,269 --> 00:14:12,000
uh she got on the phone and called her

342
00:14:14,230 --> 00:14:13,279
sister

343
00:14:15,590 --> 00:14:14,240
and

344
00:14:17,430 --> 00:14:15,600
on the other end of the line where her

345
00:14:20,790 --> 00:14:17,440
sister was was listening to this

346
00:14:23,030 --> 00:14:20,800
encounter story was a young kathy martin

347
00:14:25,990 --> 00:14:23,040
who was hearing her mother's side of the

348
00:14:27,910 --> 00:14:26,000
story so so kathy was like the second

349
00:14:31,350 --> 00:14:27,920
person to hear about this

350
00:14:32,870 --> 00:14:31,360
uh and it's an amazing story and

351
00:14:35,269 --> 00:14:32,880
and i was living in concord new

352
00:14:37,110 --> 00:14:35,279
hampshire at the time and and so kathy

353
00:14:39,509 --> 00:14:37,120
and i didn't know each other

354
00:14:41,750 --> 00:14:39,519
until later on in you know in our lives

355
00:14:43,750 --> 00:14:41,760
when we met and became friends

356
00:14:45,590 --> 00:14:43,760
uh just the whole the whole betty and

357
00:14:48,710 --> 00:14:45,600
barney heals story

358
00:14:49,910 --> 00:14:48,720
so when the story broke it really got my

359
00:14:53,110 --> 00:14:49,920
attention

360
00:14:55,990 --> 00:14:53,120
yes uh yeah because i was still

361
00:14:57,590 --> 00:14:56,000
you know in 1970 i was figuring out what

362
00:14:59,269 --> 00:14:57,600
i wanted to do

363
00:15:02,069 --> 00:14:59,279
with my life and the only thing i was

364
00:15:03,670 --> 00:15:02,079
interested in doing at that point was

365
00:15:05,509 --> 00:15:03,680
leaving new hampshire

366
00:15:07,990 --> 00:15:05,519
stuffing a suitcase

367
00:15:09,910 --> 00:15:08,000
grabbing my guitar that's right getting

368
00:15:13,350 --> 00:15:09,920
on a trailways bus in concord new

369
00:15:15,430 --> 00:15:13,360
hampshire and and going to new york city

370
00:15:18,069 --> 00:15:15,440
and and trying to live the life of a

371
00:15:19,990 --> 00:15:18,079
folk singer in in manhattan and to try

372
00:15:21,990 --> 00:15:20,000
and get a record deal

373
00:15:23,910 --> 00:15:22,000
because and by the way i i know you're

374
00:15:26,310 --> 00:15:23,920
you're humble about this but

375
00:15:28,790 --> 00:15:26,320
lee has some amazing he's an amazing

376
00:15:31,670 --> 00:15:28,800
voice singing voice and beautiful

377
00:15:33,990 --> 00:15:31,680
beautiful music really um i i know it's

378
00:15:35,990 --> 00:15:34,000
not out there to share but you did share

379
00:15:37,590 --> 00:15:36,000
it with me and i just want to say i'm

380
00:15:38,470 --> 00:15:37,600
very very impressed

381
00:15:40,949 --> 00:15:38,480
um

382
00:15:43,030 --> 00:15:40,959
and my friend donna as well well i i

383
00:15:44,949 --> 00:15:43,040
thank you you know when you're when you

384
00:15:47,189 --> 00:15:44,959
back in the 70s

385
00:15:49,990 --> 00:15:47,199
or even the late 60s when you

386
00:15:52,310 --> 00:15:50,000
when you were a folk singer making the

387
00:15:53,749 --> 00:15:52,320
rounds of greenwich village in new york

388
00:15:56,069 --> 00:15:53,759
and you wanted to

389
00:15:58,310 --> 00:15:56,079
to make a name for yourself or and get a

390
00:16:01,749 --> 00:15:58,320
recording contract what you had to do

391
00:16:03,509 --> 00:16:01,759
was to go to greenwich village and go to

392
00:16:06,230 --> 00:16:03,519
different clubs and the place that

393
00:16:07,910 --> 00:16:06,240
everyone always had to go to and i went

394
00:16:10,470 --> 00:16:07,920
my first week in new york there's a

395
00:16:13,509 --> 00:16:10,480
place called the bitter end very famous

396
00:16:15,509 --> 00:16:13,519
club where all of the folk singers going

397
00:16:17,749 --> 00:16:15,519
back to the peter paul and mary's the

398
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:17,759
gordon lightfoots the bob dylans

399
00:16:22,389 --> 00:16:20,880
yeah all these people would always go to

400
00:16:24,870 --> 00:16:22,399
the bitter end

401
00:16:26,550 --> 00:16:24,880
and uh and you go there on the mic the

402
00:16:28,870 --> 00:16:26,560
open mic night

403
00:16:30,790 --> 00:16:28,880
and and i went there to do and you could

404
00:16:32,870 --> 00:16:30,800
invite anybody you wanted

405
00:16:35,030 --> 00:16:32,880
if you knew anybody in new york

406
00:16:37,430 --> 00:16:35,040
who might be interested in seeing you

407
00:16:39,269 --> 00:16:37,440
and i was so nervous

408
00:16:41,829 --> 00:16:39,279
knowing that just the fact that i walked

409
00:16:44,069 --> 00:16:41,839
into the bitter end with my guitar

410
00:16:45,430 --> 00:16:44,079
thinking what the hell am i doing here

411
00:16:47,350 --> 00:16:45,440
maybe i should just go back to new

412
00:16:48,829 --> 00:16:47,360
hampshire

413
00:16:52,790 --> 00:16:48,839
give up the

414
00:16:55,670 --> 00:16:52,800
dream um but no i i did like a four or

415
00:16:58,870 --> 00:16:55,680
five song set that they would let you

416
00:17:01,110 --> 00:16:58,880
then to be like a smattering of applause

417
00:17:03,189 --> 00:17:01,120
yeah

418
00:17:04,789 --> 00:17:03,199
and you know and you hope that maybe

419
00:17:06,390 --> 00:17:04,799
nobody ever heard you

420
00:17:09,510 --> 00:17:06,400
all you ever hoped for in a moment like

421
00:17:11,189 --> 00:17:09,520
that is are the strings in tune that

422
00:17:12,230 --> 00:17:11,199
that's all you really

423
00:17:14,470 --> 00:17:12,240
hope for

424
00:17:17,110 --> 00:17:14,480
when that happens

425
00:17:19,029 --> 00:17:17,120
yeah well those were the days but and

426
00:17:20,870 --> 00:17:19,039
but that landed you in new york where

427
00:17:21,669 --> 00:17:20,880
you've stayed all these years

428
00:17:26,390 --> 00:17:21,679
yeah

429
00:17:29,190 --> 00:17:26,400
1973

430
00:17:31,029 --> 00:17:29,200
i was working a day job while still

431
00:17:34,390 --> 00:17:31,039
trying to get something happening with

432
00:17:35,510 --> 00:17:34,400
my music i was working at the the

433
00:17:37,430 --> 00:17:35,520
biggest

434
00:17:40,150 --> 00:17:37,440
music store

435
00:17:41,909 --> 00:17:40,160
a retail store in the country called sam

436
00:17:44,150 --> 00:17:41,919
ash music

437
00:17:46,390 --> 00:17:44,160
and i was i was a salesperson

438
00:17:48,549 --> 00:17:46,400
and i sold musical instruments one day

439
00:17:50,870 --> 00:17:48,559
jackson brown walked in and i sold him

440
00:17:52,710 --> 00:17:50,880
two guitars and it was great

441
00:17:53,990 --> 00:17:52,720
to to do that and he was so happy with

442
00:17:56,470 --> 00:17:54,000
the the sale

443
00:17:58,789 --> 00:17:56,480
uh and what a great salesman i was with

444
00:18:01,190 --> 00:17:58,799
these guitars he invited me to come to

445
00:18:02,230 --> 00:18:01,200
see him do a show at carnegie hall that

446
00:18:04,630 --> 00:18:02,240
night

447
00:18:06,549 --> 00:18:04,640
and and it was like an amazing thing my

448
00:18:08,549 --> 00:18:06,559
name was at the the stage door at

449
00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:08,559
carnegie hall they brought me up to his

450
00:18:11,909 --> 00:18:10,400
dressing room and there he was turning

451
00:18:14,789 --> 00:18:11,919
his guitar and sitting in the dressing

452
00:18:17,590 --> 00:18:14,799
room was linda ronstadt oh my goodness i

453
00:18:21,029 --> 00:18:17,600
don't remember much after that moment

454
00:18:23,990 --> 00:18:21,039
missing time yeah i know i know

455
00:18:25,590 --> 00:18:24,000
but it it was i was living for things

456
00:18:28,710 --> 00:18:25,600
like that but

457
00:18:31,270 --> 00:18:28,720
in 1973

458
00:18:32,390 --> 00:18:31,280
while i was doing this as a salesperson

459
00:18:33,750 --> 00:18:32,400
there

460
00:18:36,070 --> 00:18:33,760
something happened

461
00:18:40,549 --> 00:18:36,080
within the same week

462
00:18:43,750 --> 00:18:40,559
in october of 1973 two ufo cases

463
00:18:45,830 --> 00:18:43,760
were so big and so important that that

464
00:18:48,950 --> 00:18:45,840
they're still unexplained and they

465
00:18:51,830 --> 00:18:48,960
actually were paid attention seriously

466
00:18:53,750 --> 00:18:51,840
by the media the case of the two

467
00:18:56,870 --> 00:18:53,760
fishermen charlie hixson and calvin

468
00:18:59,669 --> 00:18:56,880
parker oh yes fishing on a pier

469
00:19:01,669 --> 00:18:59,679
uh off the pascagoula mississippi river

470
00:19:03,750 --> 00:19:01,679
right in mississippi and something

471
00:19:05,750 --> 00:19:03,760
happened to them where they claimed that

472
00:19:07,909 --> 00:19:05,760
they were taken on board

473
00:19:10,070 --> 00:19:07,919
some craft

474
00:19:11,990 --> 00:19:10,080
and they were examined and what was

475
00:19:14,390 --> 00:19:12,000
amazing about that case

476
00:19:17,190 --> 00:19:14,400
we've learned in years subsequent there

477
00:19:18,310 --> 00:19:17,200
were witnesses on the ground who kind of

478
00:19:20,230 --> 00:19:18,320
saw

479
00:19:22,870 --> 00:19:20,240
this thing going on

480
00:19:25,350 --> 00:19:22,880
and and the media got hold of it and it

481
00:19:27,909 --> 00:19:25,360
stuck dr j allen heineck

482
00:19:29,510 --> 00:19:27,919
the astronomer used to be the scientific

483
00:19:31,510 --> 00:19:29,520
consultant to the united states air

484
00:19:33,430 --> 00:19:31,520
force project blue book

485
00:19:35,590 --> 00:19:33,440
he was really convinced that there was

486
00:19:39,350 --> 00:19:35,600
something to that case

487
00:19:41,190 --> 00:19:39,360
and i was at sam ash music one day

488
00:19:44,070 --> 00:19:41,200
selling things and in the back of the

489
00:19:46,070 --> 00:19:44,080
store there was a radio on on the local

490
00:19:47,110 --> 00:19:46,080
news channel and i happened to hear in

491
00:19:48,710 --> 00:19:47,120
the news

492
00:19:51,029 --> 00:19:48,720
about these two fishermen i thought well

493
00:19:54,390 --> 00:19:51,039
that was amazing and i started paying

494
00:19:55,990 --> 00:19:54,400
more attention and in the same week

495
00:19:59,350 --> 00:19:56,000
over ohio

496
00:20:02,710 --> 00:19:59,360
a four-man army helicopter crew

497
00:20:03,830 --> 00:20:02,720
almost collided with a ufo that they

498
00:20:06,070 --> 00:20:03,840
thought

499
00:20:07,590 --> 00:20:06,080
it was going to kill them larry coyne

500
00:20:12,390 --> 00:20:07,600
larry coyne

501
00:20:15,830 --> 00:20:12,400
going to play a clip uh on

502
00:20:18,310 --> 00:20:15,840
so i think this is a good segue okay and

503
00:20:20,470 --> 00:20:18,320
uh but continue on but into what made

504
00:20:22,310 --> 00:20:20,480
you decide to do your your album well

505
00:20:23,990 --> 00:20:22,320
that that's the thing i

506
00:20:25,590 --> 00:20:24,000
there were so many

507
00:20:28,950 --> 00:20:25,600
people

508
00:20:31,430 --> 00:20:28,960
that that were were talking about ufos

509
00:20:33,110 --> 00:20:31,440
and i started reading books

510
00:20:36,630 --> 00:20:33,120
and what the first one of the first

511
00:20:39,110 --> 00:20:36,640
books i got was called um beyond earth

512
00:20:41,350 --> 00:20:39,120
man's contact with ufos

513
00:20:43,750 --> 00:20:41,360
and it was written by husband and wife

514
00:20:45,909 --> 00:20:43,760
ralph and judy blum

515
00:20:47,909 --> 00:20:45,919
and and i knew at the time from reading

516
00:20:50,149 --> 00:20:47,919
the book they had done a lot of

517
00:20:52,149 --> 00:20:50,159
interviews with astronauts military

518
00:20:53,350 --> 00:20:52,159
people people in politics law

519
00:20:54,549 --> 00:20:53,360
enforcement

520
00:20:56,549 --> 00:20:54,559
scientists

521
00:20:59,909 --> 00:20:56,559
and they were working on

522
00:21:02,870 --> 00:20:59,919
what was then an nbc news white paper

523
00:21:05,190 --> 00:21:02,880
report a news report about ufos so i

524
00:21:06,230 --> 00:21:05,200
knew that he was connected with nbc in

525
00:21:08,630 --> 00:21:06,240
some way

526
00:21:11,110 --> 00:21:08,640
and i just loved their book

527
00:21:12,630 --> 00:21:11,120
and i wanted i wanted to meet him

528
00:21:14,870 --> 00:21:12,640
because i thought boy

529
00:21:16,789 --> 00:21:14,880
i would like to hear the voices

530
00:21:18,149 --> 00:21:16,799
of the people that i'm reading about in

531
00:21:19,909 --> 00:21:18,159
his book

532
00:21:21,510 --> 00:21:19,919
and and

533
00:21:23,270 --> 00:21:21,520
if there's a way that i could do

534
00:21:24,710 --> 00:21:23,280
something like that that would be

535
00:21:27,190 --> 00:21:24,720
amazing but i didn't have the right

536
00:21:28,630 --> 00:21:27,200
connections at the time

537
00:21:30,789 --> 00:21:28,640
to to

538
00:21:31,830 --> 00:21:30,799
make a pitch anywhere to any record

539
00:21:34,950 --> 00:21:31,840
company

540
00:21:37,110 --> 00:21:34,960
um and and i knew at the time

541
00:21:40,310 --> 00:21:37,120
in the mid 1970s

542
00:21:41,110 --> 00:21:40,320
uh cbs columbia house records which was

543
00:21:47,830 --> 00:21:41,120
a

544
00:21:49,590 --> 00:21:47,840
nightly

545
00:21:52,870 --> 00:21:49,600
infomercials some of the first

546
00:21:54,870 --> 00:21:52,880
infomercials on tv in prime time and

547
00:21:58,149 --> 00:21:54,880
they were selling to

548
00:22:01,590 --> 00:21:58,159
viewing audiences recordings vinyl

549
00:22:04,390 --> 00:22:01,600
recordings of the the famous hits of

550
00:22:05,830 --> 00:22:04,400
mitch miller in the gang uh montevani

551
00:22:08,390 --> 00:22:05,840
and the strings

552
00:22:10,149 --> 00:22:08,400
and if you order now let us know if you

553
00:22:12,630 --> 00:22:10,159
want the vinyl record or if you want

554
00:22:15,029 --> 00:22:12,640
instead eight-track tape we'll send you

555
00:22:18,149 --> 00:22:15,039
a trip when you want so i thought well

556
00:22:21,029 --> 00:22:18,159
this is great no one's ever sold

557
00:22:24,870 --> 00:22:21,039
a record about ufos

558
00:22:27,190 --> 00:22:24,880
and so i i wanted to meet ralph blum

559
00:22:28,549 --> 00:22:27,200
and and i figured out a way of how to do

560
00:22:29,990 --> 00:22:28,559
it through

561
00:22:33,110 --> 00:22:30,000
nbc

562
00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:33,120
and and i i was able to

563
00:22:38,390 --> 00:22:35,760
uh meet someone at nbc

564
00:22:41,669 --> 00:22:38,400
who who thought it would be a good idea

565
00:22:44,070 --> 00:22:41,679
if uh if i just was able to they gave me

566
00:22:45,350 --> 00:22:44,080
his mail they knew he was out of town

567
00:22:46,789 --> 00:22:45,360
and they liked the idea and there's

568
00:22:49,029 --> 00:22:46,799
ralph and judy's book that you just

569
00:22:51,669 --> 00:22:49,039
showed there and and they said we've

570
00:22:53,590 --> 00:22:51,679
been trying to get a hold of ralph um to

571
00:22:55,830 --> 00:22:53,600
give him his mail because he's been gone

572
00:22:57,590 --> 00:22:55,840
a while doing some work

573
00:22:59,110 --> 00:22:57,600
why don't we wrap it up for you and you

574
00:23:01,430 --> 00:22:59,120
can bring it to him i said it's a great

575
00:23:04,549 --> 00:23:01,440
idea thanks i'd love to do it

576
00:23:06,710 --> 00:23:04,559
and and so that day same day i took a

577
00:23:10,230 --> 00:23:06,720
cab up to their apartment in new york

578
00:23:11,990 --> 00:23:10,240
city and uh rang the bell and there was

579
00:23:14,870 --> 00:23:12,000
no answer so i couldn't actually just

580
00:23:17,110 --> 00:23:14,880
give him the mail so i

581
00:23:19,270 --> 00:23:17,120
got the super of his building

582
00:23:21,590 --> 00:23:19,280
and and said i'm delivering some mail

583
00:23:23,669 --> 00:23:21,600
for mr blum can i give it to you to give

584
00:23:27,350 --> 00:23:23,679
to him he said sure so i wrote a little

585
00:23:30,630 --> 00:23:27,360
note to give with the mail dear mr blum

586
00:23:32,390 --> 00:23:30,640
um i i'm a big fan of your book i've got

587
00:23:34,549 --> 00:23:32,400
an idea of a way to help promote your

588
00:23:37,029 --> 00:23:34,559
book with another idea that i'm thinking

589
00:23:39,750 --> 00:23:37,039
of i would love to meet you here's my

590
00:23:41,669 --> 00:23:39,760
telephone number lee spiegel and i gave

591
00:23:42,710 --> 00:23:41,679
all that stuff to a super

592
00:23:45,510 --> 00:23:42,720
and

593
00:23:48,230 --> 00:23:45,520
a few days later my phone rang

594
00:23:49,830 --> 00:23:48,240
and and i said hello and i heard this

595
00:23:51,990 --> 00:23:49,840
voice and said you lee spiegel i said

596
00:23:54,230 --> 00:23:52,000
yes i am he said

597
00:23:58,149 --> 00:23:54,240
ah this is ralph blum who the hell are

598
00:24:04,950 --> 00:24:01,350
i'm thinking am i in trouble here

599
00:24:09,110 --> 00:24:04,960
did i did i not make the right decision

600
00:24:10,630 --> 00:24:09,120
my father loved what i did what i did

601
00:24:13,190 --> 00:24:10,640
but ralph said

602
00:24:15,750 --> 00:24:13,200
what do you want and i i told him my

603
00:24:17,510 --> 00:24:15,760
idea and he said

604
00:24:20,310 --> 00:24:17,520
okay let's meet

605
00:24:22,310 --> 00:24:20,320
and from that point on we became friends

606
00:24:23,990 --> 00:24:22,320
and he had connections

607
00:24:26,630 --> 00:24:24,000
their book that you just showed was

608
00:24:28,630 --> 00:24:26,640
published by bantam books

609
00:24:31,110 --> 00:24:28,640
and and so he knew all the people in

610
00:24:33,990 --> 00:24:31,120
publishing and production and marketing

611
00:24:36,470 --> 00:24:34,000
at bantam and he had friends and i had

612
00:24:39,269 --> 00:24:36,480
some friends in the recording industry

613
00:24:41,269 --> 00:24:39,279
so we worked it out to do a pitch to the

614
00:24:43,430 --> 00:24:41,279
people at cbs

615
00:24:46,390 --> 00:24:43,440
of the idea of

616
00:24:48,870 --> 00:24:46,400
letting me with ralph's help contact all

617
00:24:51,269 --> 00:24:48,880
these people that were in his book he

618
00:24:53,029 --> 00:24:51,279
gave me all their contact information

619
00:24:54,950 --> 00:24:53,039
so that i could start calling them and

620
00:24:57,190 --> 00:24:54,960
ask them if they would be interested in

621
00:24:58,950 --> 00:24:57,200
having me come to visit them

622
00:25:02,310 --> 00:24:58,960
wherever they were in the country and

623
00:25:04,149 --> 00:25:02,320
interview them for a vinyl documentary

624
00:25:05,669 --> 00:25:04,159
recording that i was going to produce

625
00:25:07,590 --> 00:25:05,679
for cbs

626
00:25:09,510 --> 00:25:07,600
and people said sure

627
00:25:11,350 --> 00:25:09,520
and we worked out the deal

628
00:25:13,750 --> 00:25:11,360
so that uh

629
00:25:15,669 --> 00:25:13,760
if if they bought the record album from

630
00:25:16,710 --> 00:25:15,679
the tv commercial we ended up having for

631
00:25:19,269 --> 00:25:16,720
it

632
00:25:20,630 --> 00:25:19,279
uh if you didn't like the album or the

633
00:25:22,870 --> 00:25:20,640
eight-track tape

634
00:25:25,269 --> 00:25:22,880
well okay you could send the album back

635
00:25:29,750 --> 00:25:25,279
to us but keep the book keep the ralph

636
00:25:34,310 --> 00:25:31,510
you know you don't see much of that kind

637
00:25:35,669 --> 00:25:34,320
of stuff anymore no no but it was the

638
00:25:37,750 --> 00:25:35,679
first time

639
00:25:39,510 --> 00:25:37,760
uh it kind of became an instant classic

640
00:25:40,830 --> 00:25:39,520
in in ufology

641
00:25:43,590 --> 00:25:40,840
it was the first time that a major

642
00:25:46,870 --> 00:25:43,600
recording company like cbs

643
00:25:49,269 --> 00:25:46,880
offered a ufo product to the public

644
00:25:50,789 --> 00:25:49,279
it was the first time that a ufo

645
00:25:52,950 --> 00:25:50,799
documentary

646
00:25:55,190 --> 00:25:52,960
was presented on tv in a two-minute

647
00:25:57,110 --> 00:25:55,200
infomercial

648
00:26:00,870 --> 00:25:57,120
and it was one of the first

649
00:26:01,909 --> 00:26:00,880
ufo products that dr j allen heineck

650
00:26:03,750 --> 00:26:01,919
chose

651
00:26:06,549 --> 00:26:03,760
that was offered for sale in the

652
00:26:07,750 --> 00:26:06,559
renowned edmond scientific catalog at

653
00:26:09,430 --> 00:26:07,760
the time

654
00:26:11,269 --> 00:26:09,440
edmund scientific

655
00:26:13,190 --> 00:26:11,279
approached dr heineck and asked him if

656
00:26:15,350 --> 00:26:13,200
he would choose some products related to

657
00:26:18,149 --> 00:26:15,360
ufos because they wanted to devote an

658
00:26:20,310 --> 00:26:18,159
entire section and page in their science

659
00:26:22,789 --> 00:26:20,320
catalog

660
00:26:25,510 --> 00:26:22,799
and so he chose a variety of things like

661
00:26:27,750 --> 00:26:25,520
best books he liked best slide shows and

662
00:26:31,269 --> 00:26:27,760
mine was the only record that was

663
00:26:34,470 --> 00:26:31,279
offered and it was like wow

664
00:26:36,630 --> 00:26:34,480
it was just i couldn't believe my luck

665
00:26:38,710 --> 00:26:36,640
of getting that far

666
00:26:41,190 --> 00:26:38,720
so quickly and so

667
00:26:43,269 --> 00:26:41,200
okay i came to new york with a guitar

668
00:26:45,350 --> 00:26:43,279
looking for a record contract and i

669
00:26:47,190 --> 00:26:45,360
finally got a record contract but it had

670
00:26:49,669 --> 00:26:47,200
nothing to do with folk singing it was

671
00:26:51,430 --> 00:26:49,679
about chasing extraterrestrials go

672
00:26:53,590 --> 00:26:51,440
figure

673
00:26:55,350 --> 00:26:53,600
well it's great and i'd like to play i'd

674
00:26:57,990 --> 00:26:55,360
like to play a couple of clips i'll i'll

675
00:27:00,870 --> 00:26:58,000
show it out this is uh from side one

676
00:27:03,190 --> 00:27:00,880
okay and uh so just for the listener and

677
00:27:05,590 --> 00:27:03,200
the the people watching live it's uh

678
00:27:07,909 --> 00:27:05,600
it's just it's six and a half minutes

679
00:27:09,190 --> 00:27:07,919
the other one is uh is about four

680
00:27:10,549 --> 00:27:09,200
minutes but this is six and a half

681
00:27:11,990 --> 00:27:10,559
minutes i'll play it right now here it

682
00:27:15,190 --> 00:27:12,000
goes

683
00:27:16,870 --> 00:27:15,200
october 18 1973

684
00:27:18,630 --> 00:27:16,880
a terrifying encounter takes place

685
00:27:21,190 --> 00:27:18,640
between a four-man crew aboard an army

686
00:27:23,350 --> 00:27:21,200
helicopter and a ufo

687
00:27:25,350 --> 00:27:23,360
while the crew is on route to cleveland

688
00:27:27,350 --> 00:27:25,360
ohio from columbus

689
00:27:29,430 --> 00:27:27,360
this mid-air drama is witnessed by

690
00:27:30,630 --> 00:27:29,440
several ground observers and is

691
00:27:33,269 --> 00:27:30,640
considered to be one of the most

692
00:27:35,590 --> 00:27:33,279
impressive sightings in history

693
00:27:37,510 --> 00:27:35,600
the commander of the helicopter major

694
00:27:39,909 --> 00:27:37,520
larry coyne and his crew

695
00:27:43,029 --> 00:27:39,919
thought at first that the light on the

696
00:27:45,190 --> 00:27:43,039
horizon was a radio tower beacon the

697
00:27:48,549 --> 00:27:45,200
crew chief on the helicopter observed a

698
00:27:51,029 --> 00:27:48,559
light a red light on the east horizon

699
00:27:53,190 --> 00:27:51,039
he then informed me that the light was

700
00:27:56,070 --> 00:27:53,200
closing on the helicopter that it was

701
00:27:58,310 --> 00:27:56,080
coming at us on a collision course

702
00:28:00,149 --> 00:27:58,320
and i looked to the right and i observed

703
00:28:02,870 --> 00:28:00,159
that the object became bigger and the

704
00:28:04,789 --> 00:28:02,880
light became brighter and i began to

705
00:28:06,549 --> 00:28:04,799
descend the helicopter towards the

706
00:28:09,029 --> 00:28:06,559
ground to get out of the collision

707
00:28:11,029 --> 00:28:09,039
course path this object continued to

708
00:28:12,470 --> 00:28:11,039
come directly at the aircraft it was

709
00:28:14,549 --> 00:28:12,480
like a missile locked onto the

710
00:28:16,630 --> 00:28:14,559
helicopter it looked like we were going

711
00:28:19,350 --> 00:28:16,640
to collide with it and we braced for

712
00:28:21,350 --> 00:28:19,360
impact then i heard the crewmen in the

713
00:28:23,669 --> 00:28:21,360
back say look up and i did and i

714
00:28:24,710 --> 00:28:23,679
observed this crap stopped directly in

715
00:28:26,310 --> 00:28:24,720
front of us

716
00:28:27,830 --> 00:28:26,320
it was hovering right over the

717
00:28:29,669 --> 00:28:27,840
helicopter

718
00:28:31,269 --> 00:28:29,679
we assumed it was a high performance

719
00:28:33,110 --> 00:28:31,279
fighter but when it stopped directly in

720
00:28:36,149 --> 00:28:33,120
front of us all four of us realized was

721
00:28:37,990 --> 00:28:36,159
no high performance aircraft this crab

722
00:28:39,110 --> 00:28:38,000
from the angle we thought was cigar

723
00:28:41,750 --> 00:28:39,120
shaped

724
00:28:42,870 --> 00:28:41,760
these four men are trained military

725
00:28:44,950 --> 00:28:42,880
personnel

726
00:28:46,549 --> 00:28:44,960
with thousands of hours of flying time

727
00:28:48,149 --> 00:28:46,559
behind them

728
00:28:49,590 --> 00:28:48,159
what occurred next might seem like

729
00:28:53,110 --> 00:28:49,600
science fiction

730
00:28:54,470 --> 00:28:53,120
but it happened we were 1700 feet

731
00:28:56,310 --> 00:28:54,480
at this time i was worried we were going

732
00:28:58,950 --> 00:28:56,320
to hit the ground and i looked at my

733
00:29:01,029 --> 00:28:58,960
altimeter and the our helicopter was

734
00:29:03,110 --> 00:29:01,039
three thousand five hundred feet

735
00:29:05,669 --> 00:29:03,120
climbing a thousand feet a minute with

736
00:29:07,669 --> 00:29:05,679
no changes in the control we went from

737
00:29:09,590 --> 00:29:07,679
seventeen hundred feet to three thousand

738
00:29:11,029 --> 00:29:09,600
five hundred feet in a matter of seconds

739
00:29:12,389 --> 00:29:11,039
and never knew it

740
00:29:14,310 --> 00:29:12,399
there was a bump

741
00:29:15,909 --> 00:29:14,320
like turbulence at which time we had

742
00:29:17,750 --> 00:29:15,919
control of the aircraft again then we

743
00:29:20,149 --> 00:29:17,760
continued on to cleveland

744
00:29:22,149 --> 00:29:20,159
to encounter a ufo when it does approach

745
00:29:23,830 --> 00:29:22,159
the aircraft you have no idea what it is

746
00:29:25,350 --> 00:29:23,840
well i think if it wanted to collide

747
00:29:26,710 --> 00:29:25,360
with us it could have but you can't get

748
00:29:28,789 --> 00:29:26,720
away from it you don't have that much

749
00:29:30,549 --> 00:29:28,799
time to respond

750
00:29:32,549 --> 00:29:30,559
some ufos

751
00:29:34,870 --> 00:29:32,559
are really flying saucers in other words

752
00:29:36,070 --> 00:29:34,880
are really somebody else's spacecraft

753
00:29:38,710 --> 00:29:36,080
intelligently controlled

754
00:29:41,190 --> 00:29:38,720
extraterrestrial vehicles stanton

755
00:29:42,870 --> 00:29:41,200
friedman nuclear physicist who says we

756
00:29:44,630 --> 00:29:42,880
must keep open minds regarding the

757
00:29:46,470 --> 00:29:44,640
reality of ufos coming from other

758
00:29:48,310 --> 00:29:46,480
planets they probably come from a

759
00:29:49,750 --> 00:29:48,320
variety of sources for a variety of

760
00:29:51,669 --> 00:29:49,760
purposes certainly there's an

761
00:29:53,909 --> 00:29:51,679
intelligence behind the maneuverability

762
00:29:55,269 --> 00:29:53,919
and one of the places where even people

763
00:29:57,190 --> 00:29:55,279
who want to believe in ufos come a

764
00:29:59,110 --> 00:29:57,200
cropper as they don't understand the

765
00:30:00,470 --> 00:29:59,120
maneuverability that's not mystery it's

766
00:30:02,310 --> 00:30:00,480
technology

767
00:30:05,029 --> 00:30:02,320
when somebody says that that bit of ufo

768
00:30:06,630 --> 00:30:05,039
behavior is impossible what they mean is

769
00:30:08,149 --> 00:30:06,640
i don't know how to do that and if i

770
00:30:10,149 --> 00:30:08,159
don't know how to do it it must be

771
00:30:11,830 --> 00:30:10,159
impossible well that kind of approach is

772
00:30:14,870 --> 00:30:11,840
obviously ridiculous i mean it's not

773
00:30:19,590 --> 00:30:17,510
in our own space program many ufos have

774
00:30:21,750 --> 00:30:19,600
been reported by the astronauts

775
00:30:25,430 --> 00:30:21,760
the first sighting took place in june of

776
00:30:28,070 --> 00:30:25,440
1965 on the gemini 4 mission

777
00:30:31,029 --> 00:30:28,080
astronaut jim mcdivitt caught sight of a

778
00:30:32,710 --> 00:30:31,039
strange-looking object out in space

779
00:30:33,909 --> 00:30:32,720
at the time that i saw it i said there

780
00:30:35,430 --> 00:30:33,919
was something up in front of me that

781
00:30:36,870 --> 00:30:35,440
were outside the spacecraft that i

782
00:30:38,470 --> 00:30:36,880
couldn't identify

783
00:30:40,389 --> 00:30:38,480
and i never have been able to identify

784
00:30:42,470 --> 00:30:40,399
and i don't think anybody ever will

785
00:30:44,710 --> 00:30:42,480
we were in drifting flight and my

786
00:30:46,710 --> 00:30:44,720
partner ed white was asleep spacecraft

787
00:30:48,630 --> 00:30:46,720
was drifting around and as it was

788
00:30:50,389 --> 00:30:48,640
rotating around i noticed something out

789
00:30:52,389 --> 00:30:50,399
in front that was a white cylindrical

790
00:30:53,830 --> 00:30:52,399
shape with a white pole sticking out of

791
00:30:55,590 --> 00:30:53,840
one corner of it

792
00:30:58,070 --> 00:30:55,600
it had about the same dimensional

793
00:31:00,230 --> 00:30:58,080
relationship as a beer can with a smooth

794
00:31:01,830 --> 00:31:00,240
pencil sticking out one corner of it

795
00:31:03,750 --> 00:31:01,840
i couldn't tell how close it was and i

796
00:31:05,430 --> 00:31:03,760
couldn't tell what the size was

797
00:31:07,509 --> 00:31:05,440
i thought i might run into it so i

798
00:31:09,430 --> 00:31:07,519
turned on the flight control system and

799
00:31:11,110 --> 00:31:09,440
in the meantime i grabbed two cameras

800
00:31:13,190 --> 00:31:11,120
which were floating in the spacecraft

801
00:31:14,630 --> 00:31:13,200
and i grabbed one and took a picture and

802
00:31:16,470 --> 00:31:14,640
i let go of it and i grabbed the other

803
00:31:17,909 --> 00:31:16,480
one took a picture as the sun's showing

804
00:31:19,669 --> 00:31:17,919
on the window i could no longer see out

805
00:31:21,990 --> 00:31:19,679
and the thing just disappeared i never

806
00:31:24,549 --> 00:31:22,000
did find out what it was and nobody else

807
00:31:26,870 --> 00:31:24,559
ever did either they checked the norad

808
00:31:28,549 --> 00:31:26,880
records to see what they had up on radar

809
00:31:30,630 --> 00:31:28,559
and there wasn't anything within a very

810
00:31:31,669 --> 00:31:30,640
close range of us i've seen the photos

811
00:31:33,909 --> 00:31:31,679
that were released i've seen them

812
00:31:36,070 --> 00:31:33,919
published in magazines and newspapers

813
00:31:37,909 --> 00:31:36,080
now i went back and went through each

814
00:31:39,509 --> 00:31:37,919
frame of all the pictures that we took

815
00:31:42,149 --> 00:31:39,519
after the flight and there wasn't

816
00:31:44,870 --> 00:31:42,159
anything in there like what i had seen

817
00:31:45,830 --> 00:31:44,880
general mcdivot has made it absolutely

818
00:31:48,389 --> 00:31:45,840
clear

819
00:31:50,470 --> 00:31:48,399
that nasa never did show him any

820
00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:50,480
pictures of the object which he

821
00:31:54,549 --> 00:31:52,080
photographed

822
00:31:56,389 --> 00:31:54,559
another astronaut colonel gordon cooper

823
00:31:59,750 --> 00:31:56,399
originally was assigned to a jet fighter

824
00:32:02,230 --> 00:31:59,760
group in germany during the early 1950s

825
00:32:04,870 --> 00:32:02,240
he recounts the day a group of circular

826
00:32:06,870 --> 00:32:04,880
objects passed over the air base

827
00:32:08,870 --> 00:32:06,880
a weatherman spotted some strange

828
00:32:10,470 --> 00:32:08,880
objects flying apparently fairly high

829
00:32:12,470 --> 00:32:10,480
altitude with some large binoculars

830
00:32:14,710 --> 00:32:12,480
while tracking a weather balloon before

831
00:32:16,710 --> 00:32:14,720
long the entire fighter group was out

832
00:32:19,750 --> 00:32:16,720
peering through binoculars at these

833
00:32:21,830 --> 00:32:19,760
groups of objects coming over and all in

834
00:32:23,430 --> 00:32:21,840
very strange patterns resembling fighter

835
00:32:25,509 --> 00:32:23,440
formations

836
00:32:27,190 --> 00:32:25,519
but unlike fighters they would almost

837
00:32:29,750 --> 00:32:27,200
stop in their forward velocity and

838
00:32:31,029 --> 00:32:29,760
chains 90 degrees sometimes in their

839
00:32:32,870 --> 00:32:31,039
flight path

840
00:32:35,190 --> 00:32:32,880
we never could get close enough really

841
00:32:37,430 --> 00:32:35,200
to pin them down but they were round in

842
00:32:39,750 --> 00:32:37,440
shape and very metallic looking

843
00:32:41,509 --> 00:32:39,760
personally i believe in ufos and my

844
00:32:42,549 --> 00:32:41,519
personal opinion is that i think that

845
00:32:45,110 --> 00:32:42,559
they are

846
00:32:47,269 --> 00:32:45,120
very likely travelers from some other

847
00:32:49,750 --> 00:32:47,279
planet if not in our galaxy in a

848
00:32:51,590 --> 00:32:49,760
neighboring galaxy blisters from some

849
00:32:54,230 --> 00:32:51,600
planet that is hundreds or thousands of

850
00:32:56,149 --> 00:32:54,240
years more developed than we are

851
00:32:58,149 --> 00:32:56,159
i think we can navigate equally as well

852
00:33:00,230 --> 00:32:58,159
as they do but we certainly don't have

853
00:33:02,149 --> 00:33:00,240
the sophisticated propulsion systems

854
00:33:04,710 --> 00:33:02,159
that they apparently do

855
00:33:06,630 --> 00:33:04,720
colonel cooper also recalls an incident

856
00:33:09,509 --> 00:33:06,640
that took place at the edwards air force

857
00:33:11,029 --> 00:33:09,519
base flight test center in california

858
00:33:14,789 --> 00:33:11,039
and to this day

859
00:33:17,029 --> 00:33:14,799
the photographic evidence is unavailable

860
00:33:19,190 --> 00:33:17,039
the case of one that landed out on the

861
00:33:21,190 --> 00:33:19,200
dry lake bed right out from

862
00:33:23,350 --> 00:33:21,200
a number of camera crews we had who

863
00:33:25,430 --> 00:33:23,360
found it and the film was there and sent

864
00:33:37,450 --> 00:33:25,440
forward to a safe keeping somewhere in

865
00:33:37,460 --> 00:33:45,669
[Laughter]

866
00:33:49,830 --> 00:33:47,269
we'll play a clip i'll leave from the

867
00:33:53,029 --> 00:33:49,840
other side in a little bit so this is

868
00:33:55,190 --> 00:33:53,039
just a small clip it's i think it's

869
00:33:56,870 --> 00:33:55,200
20 some odd minutes long and this is

870
00:34:00,230 --> 00:33:56,880
just so that was a six minute clip from

871
00:34:02,070 --> 00:34:00,240
one side uh 20 minutes some 20 some odd

872
00:34:03,029 --> 00:34:02,080
minutes on to each side i believe right

873
00:34:05,909 --> 00:34:03,039
lee

874
00:34:09,349 --> 00:34:05,919
yeah and and you know martin

875
00:34:10,230 --> 00:34:09,359
really for all these years 44 45 years

876
00:34:11,829 --> 00:34:10,240
later

877
00:34:14,149 --> 00:34:11,839
every time

878
00:34:15,750 --> 00:34:14,159
i hear any of these clips or any of

879
00:34:19,109 --> 00:34:15,760
these voices

880
00:34:22,950 --> 00:34:19,119
and it reminds me

881
00:34:25,270 --> 00:34:22,960
how fortunate i was and how lucky i was

882
00:34:27,829 --> 00:34:25,280
to get to meet these people and to talk

883
00:34:33,270 --> 00:34:30,389
and to have them say things

884
00:34:34,470 --> 00:34:33,280
about what they encountered that people

885
00:34:37,829 --> 00:34:34,480
are still

886
00:34:40,470 --> 00:34:37,839
claiming to report today

887
00:34:42,230 --> 00:34:40,480
it's like nothing has changed yeah that

888
00:34:43,669 --> 00:34:42,240
that's that's the most important thing

889
00:34:47,990 --> 00:34:43,679
it's like if i just decided to get

890
00:34:48,710 --> 00:34:48,000
involved with ufos today in 2022 i might

891
00:34:50,790 --> 00:34:48,720
not

892
00:34:52,950 --> 00:34:50,800
have the passion about

893
00:34:55,030 --> 00:34:52,960
wanting to remind people that this is

894
00:34:56,230 --> 00:34:55,040
nothing new that we're hearing about in

895
00:34:58,069 --> 00:34:56,240
the news

896
00:35:00,790 --> 00:34:58,079
it might be new to people who haven't

897
00:35:01,750 --> 00:35:00,800
really spent much time thinking about it

898
00:35:05,030 --> 00:35:01,760
but

899
00:35:07,430 --> 00:35:05,040
everybody needs to be reminded

900
00:35:09,349 --> 00:35:07,440
that this has been going on like as the

901
00:35:11,510 --> 00:35:09,359
air force told the cadets

902
00:35:13,109 --> 00:35:11,520
it's been going on for tens of thousands

903
00:35:14,870 --> 00:35:13,119
of years

904
00:35:17,430 --> 00:35:14,880
and

905
00:35:18,310 --> 00:35:17,440
it's so frustrating to me

906
00:35:20,069 --> 00:35:18,320
that

907
00:35:21,910 --> 00:35:20,079
nothing has changed and yet we get

908
00:35:24,790 --> 00:35:21,920
little bits and pieces the government

909
00:35:28,230 --> 00:35:24,800
now just in the last few years has kind

910
00:35:31,990 --> 00:35:28,240
of acknowledged the reality of ufos

911
00:35:34,230 --> 00:35:32,000
um the navy has shown us their little

912
00:35:37,589 --> 00:35:34,240
videos now everybody's talking about the

913
00:35:41,349 --> 00:35:37,599
tic tac videos the go fast video the

914
00:35:43,030 --> 00:35:41,359
fleer video oh wow okay the navy is like

915
00:35:44,550 --> 00:35:43,040
chasing these things and i keep

916
00:35:46,390 --> 00:35:44,560
wondering now

917
00:35:49,190 --> 00:35:46,400
after all the decades

918
00:35:53,510 --> 00:35:49,200
ever since the united states air force

919
00:35:57,030 --> 00:35:53,520
closed project blue book in 1969 1970

920
00:35:59,270 --> 00:35:57,040
and after decades of denying that that

921
00:36:02,710 --> 00:35:59,280
anything unbelievable happened at

922
00:36:05,829 --> 00:36:02,720
roswell new mexico in 1947

923
00:36:07,910 --> 00:36:05,839
denial denials denials all of a sudden

924
00:36:09,910 --> 00:36:07,920
when the navy started talking about just

925
00:36:12,710 --> 00:36:09,920
over the last few years about their own

926
00:36:15,030 --> 00:36:12,720
jet fighter pilots having encounters

927
00:36:18,230 --> 00:36:15,040
with ufos off the east coast off the

928
00:36:20,230 --> 00:36:18,240
west coast now almost on a daily basis

929
00:36:21,910 --> 00:36:20,240
i'm saying to people where's the air

930
00:36:23,349 --> 00:36:21,920
force

931
00:36:24,829 --> 00:36:23,359
why why haven't we heard from the air

932
00:36:27,430 --> 00:36:24,839
force because

933
00:36:29,829 --> 00:36:27,440
technically isn't the air force

934
00:36:33,270 --> 00:36:29,839
protecting the sky protecting the skies

935
00:36:35,750 --> 00:36:33,280
like hello air force it's it's almost as

936
00:36:37,670 --> 00:36:35,760
if they're saying you know what we've

937
00:36:40,710 --> 00:36:37,680
had enough egg on our face for a long

938
00:36:44,230 --> 00:36:40,720
time let the navy deal with this

939
00:36:46,069 --> 00:36:44,240
that that's what i'm feeling i wonder

940
00:36:48,870 --> 00:36:46,079
it's it's been a puzzle

941
00:36:50,870 --> 00:36:48,880
um why they have not you know i mean you

942
00:36:53,190 --> 00:36:50,880
would think that it would they would be

943
00:36:55,910 --> 00:36:53,200
in the in the front on this

944
00:36:58,870 --> 00:36:55,920
um because it's it's the skies i think

945
00:37:00,870 --> 00:36:58,880
the navy has done a great job yeah

946
00:37:02,310 --> 00:37:00,880
uh and it's it's so weird because you'd

947
00:37:04,550 --> 00:37:02,320
think that they that they would would

948
00:37:07,190 --> 00:37:04,560
want to do something like together okay

949
00:37:09,510 --> 00:37:07,200
air force since we have jurisdiction

950
00:37:11,990 --> 00:37:09,520
over the skies we'll cover all the

951
00:37:14,550 --> 00:37:12,000
things in the skies you navy

952
00:37:18,069 --> 00:37:14,560
you've got the oceans you cover the usos

953
00:37:20,630 --> 00:37:18,079
the unidentified submersible objects

954
00:37:23,109 --> 00:37:20,640
so you know you do the yeah

955
00:37:24,870 --> 00:37:23,119
that makes more sense i know let's work

956
00:37:27,910 --> 00:37:24,880
together but no

957
00:37:29,270 --> 00:37:27,920
the air force is like nowhere to be seen

958
00:37:30,390 --> 00:37:29,280
oh my god

959
00:37:33,670 --> 00:37:30,400
yeah

960
00:37:35,190 --> 00:37:33,680
but uh i think that all reporting now

961
00:37:37,510 --> 00:37:35,200
that there's going there are some

962
00:37:39,349 --> 00:37:37,520
changes so all the re there will not be

963
00:37:40,790 --> 00:37:39,359
the stigma about reporting for the air

964
00:37:42,950 --> 00:37:40,800
force as well

965
00:37:45,030 --> 00:37:42,960
for all military from what i understand

966
00:37:47,990 --> 00:37:45,040
right i mean they're trying to make it

967
00:37:50,390 --> 00:37:48,000
uh more of available to

968
00:37:53,109 --> 00:37:50,400
military personnel who want to report

969
00:37:55,270 --> 00:37:53,119
something give them specific routes and

970
00:37:55,990 --> 00:37:55,280
and places to go to and people to talk

971
00:37:58,310 --> 00:37:56,000
to

972
00:38:00,150 --> 00:37:58,320
but it it doesn't

973
00:38:02,870 --> 00:38:00,160
it doesn't solve

974
00:38:05,030 --> 00:38:02,880
the mystery of what we're talking about

975
00:38:06,950 --> 00:38:05,040
and what we're dealing with here

976
00:38:08,710 --> 00:38:06,960
i don't i don't want to know who to

977
00:38:09,829 --> 00:38:08,720
report something to

978
00:38:12,230 --> 00:38:09,839
i want

979
00:38:14,150 --> 00:38:12,240
someone who's in command

980
00:38:17,190 --> 00:38:14,160
and i don't know if that's anyone who's

981
00:38:19,910 --> 00:38:17,200
in the united states or even in any

982
00:38:23,430 --> 00:38:19,920
country maybe it's a united nations

983
00:38:26,470 --> 00:38:23,440
thing but but i think what the public

984
00:38:29,910 --> 00:38:26,480
really deserves or needs

985
00:38:32,950 --> 00:38:31,430
equilateral

986
00:38:34,069 --> 00:38:32,960
international

987
00:38:36,310 --> 00:38:34,079
voice

988
00:38:39,030 --> 00:38:36,320
something or someone that speaks for the

989
00:38:40,390 --> 00:38:39,040
nations of earth for all the citizens of

990
00:38:42,069 --> 00:38:40,400
earth to say

991
00:38:44,390 --> 00:38:42,079
all right folks

992
00:38:48,310 --> 00:38:44,400
now that we have sort of acknowledged

993
00:38:50,550 --> 00:38:48,320
the reality of many ufos we're not just

994
00:38:52,230 --> 00:38:50,560
ridiculing people anymore

995
00:38:54,230 --> 00:38:52,240
we're not making you think that that

996
00:38:55,910 --> 00:38:54,240
thing that you saw the other night that

997
00:38:57,270 --> 00:38:55,920
was zig-zagging in the sky we're not

998
00:38:58,790 --> 00:38:57,280
going to try and make you believe that

999
00:39:01,589 --> 00:38:58,800
was venus

1000
00:39:03,270 --> 00:39:01,599
venus doesn't behave that way

1001
00:39:05,430 --> 00:39:03,280
you know we're not going to make you

1002
00:39:08,230 --> 00:39:05,440
feel like you don't know what you're

1003
00:39:10,630 --> 00:39:08,240
talking about and we're not going to do

1004
00:39:13,270 --> 00:39:10,640
we're not going to ridicule and ruin

1005
00:39:14,390 --> 00:39:13,280
people's lives anymore like it used to

1006
00:39:16,230 --> 00:39:14,400
happen

1007
00:39:17,670 --> 00:39:16,240
we want to get rid of the stigma and the

1008
00:39:19,910 --> 00:39:17,680
only way to do that

1009
00:39:21,990 --> 00:39:19,920
is to say to you

1010
00:39:23,670 --> 00:39:22,000
we're looking into it we thought at

1011
00:39:25,990 --> 00:39:23,680
first it might be

1012
00:39:28,230 --> 00:39:26,000
russia or china and some advanced

1013
00:39:30,470 --> 00:39:28,240
technology but maybe maybe we're not

1014
00:39:33,030 --> 00:39:30,480
going in that direction because the

1015
00:39:34,390 --> 00:39:33,040
the properties associated with the

1016
00:39:38,390 --> 00:39:34,400
phenomenon

1017
00:39:40,069 --> 00:39:38,400
the maneuverability the characteristics

1018
00:39:42,550 --> 00:39:40,079
are all the same things that were

1019
00:39:45,990 --> 00:39:42,560
described in 1947

1020
00:39:47,190 --> 00:39:46,000
in a memo by air force general nathan

1021
00:39:49,670 --> 00:39:47,200
twining

1022
00:39:51,990 --> 00:39:49,680
to the air material command

1023
00:39:54,390 --> 00:39:52,000
in in fact that was back then they

1024
00:39:57,190 --> 00:39:54,400
weren't even calling them ufos or flying

1025
00:39:59,910 --> 00:39:57,200
saucers they were known as flying discs

1026
00:40:02,950 --> 00:39:59,920
right and and in that that that memo

1027
00:40:06,069 --> 00:40:02,960
begins with the phenomenon reported is

1028
00:40:09,430 --> 00:40:06,079
something real it's not imaginary it's

1029
00:40:11,270 --> 00:40:09,440
not it's not made up it it has objects

1030
00:40:13,910 --> 00:40:11,280
that approximate the size and

1031
00:40:15,910 --> 00:40:13,920
characteristics of man-made aircraft

1032
00:40:17,510 --> 00:40:15,920
that have incredible maneuverability

1033
00:40:19,190 --> 00:40:17,520
blah blah blah especially when

1034
00:40:22,589 --> 00:40:19,200
approached by

1035
00:40:25,990 --> 00:40:22,599
a friendly aircraft they're very evasive

1036
00:40:27,750 --> 00:40:26,000
1947 i love to remind people this was a

1037
00:40:31,270 --> 00:40:27,760
real document

1038
00:40:34,069 --> 00:40:31,280
in 1947 75 years ago

1039
00:40:36,790 --> 00:40:34,079
they the military was talking behind the

1040
00:40:40,069 --> 00:40:36,800
scenes about the things that are still

1041
00:40:42,870 --> 00:40:40,079
being encountered by the military what

1042
00:40:44,950 --> 00:40:42,880
is wrong with this picture

1043
00:40:47,109 --> 00:40:44,960
that's right i mean

1044
00:40:47,910 --> 00:40:47,119
this this long ago

1045
00:40:50,150 --> 00:40:47,920
yeah

1046
00:40:53,030 --> 00:40:50,160
and in the military talking about it and

1047
00:40:53,910 --> 00:40:53,040
yeah a lot of a lot of people have said

1048
00:40:56,309 --> 00:40:53,920
you know

1049
00:40:58,309 --> 00:40:56,319
along the lines of the more things

1050
00:41:01,750 --> 00:40:58,319
change the more they they stay the same

1051
00:41:04,550 --> 00:41:01,760
type oh yeah no yeah i'm gonna pull up

1052
00:41:06,790 --> 00:41:04,560
that the twining member but but um i

1053
00:41:08,390 --> 00:41:06,800
have it here i just have to convert it

1054
00:41:13,829 --> 00:41:08,400
um

1055
00:41:16,069 --> 00:41:13,839
uh are you going are you going to be

1056
00:41:18,710 --> 00:41:16,079
able to offer that yes

1057
00:41:19,910 --> 00:41:18,720
so people can actually listen to it and

1058
00:41:23,030 --> 00:41:19,920
i do have that other clip i'm going to

1059
00:41:26,069 --> 00:41:23,040
play in just a minute okay uh my plan is

1060
00:41:28,630 --> 00:41:26,079
that um because it's still

1061
00:41:30,790 --> 00:41:28,640
relevant everything that's on this album

1062
00:41:33,270 --> 00:41:30,800
all the things that the people mentioned

1063
00:41:34,870 --> 00:41:33,280
talked about it's all relevant all these

1064
00:41:36,230 --> 00:41:34,880
years later and a lot of people have

1065
00:41:39,190 --> 00:41:36,240
been asking me

1066
00:41:42,550 --> 00:41:39,200
um if i'll ever re-release it yes i'm

1067
00:41:44,790 --> 00:41:42,560
going to soon re-release it as like an

1068
00:41:47,990 --> 00:41:44,800
anniversary presentation

1069
00:41:50,950 --> 00:41:48,000
and and what i will do martin is as soon

1070
00:41:53,910 --> 00:41:50,960
as i'm ready to go with that i will let

1071
00:41:54,790 --> 00:41:53,920
you be one of the first people

1072
00:41:56,390 --> 00:41:54,800
um

1073
00:41:58,710 --> 00:41:56,400
that that

1074
00:42:00,630 --> 00:41:58,720
will offer it to you to offer it to your

1075
00:42:03,190 --> 00:42:00,640
your listeners and then we'll put it out

1076
00:42:05,190 --> 00:42:03,200
there we'll post all kinds of notices

1077
00:42:06,870 --> 00:42:05,200
about it we'll do it through the onix

1078
00:42:09,109 --> 00:42:06,880
network that i'm on but

1079
00:42:11,670 --> 00:42:09,119
once i make the decision to do this i

1080
00:42:13,829 --> 00:42:11,680
really want people to hear this because

1081
00:42:16,630 --> 00:42:13,839
every time i hear it and god knows how

1082
00:42:19,270 --> 00:42:16,640
many times i've heard it now over the

1083
00:42:21,670 --> 00:42:19,280
last you know five decades i keep

1084
00:42:24,150 --> 00:42:21,680
thinking my god this is still

1085
00:42:25,589 --> 00:42:24,160
this is still relevant now

1086
00:42:28,630 --> 00:42:25,599
you obviously were right there when

1087
00:42:30,470 --> 00:42:28,640
these people were talking right oh yeah

1088
00:42:33,430 --> 00:42:30,480
there's some icons here jay allen

1089
00:42:36,150 --> 00:42:33,440
heineck of course who you knew oh um who

1090
00:42:38,069 --> 00:42:36,160
you had you know a friendship with um

1091
00:42:39,670 --> 00:42:38,079
but you know gordon cooper i think he

1092
00:42:42,309 --> 00:42:39,680
was an amazing guy

1093
00:42:44,230 --> 00:42:42,319
but he was wonderful and uh several

1094
00:42:46,630 --> 00:42:44,240
other people and i'm going to play your

1095
00:42:48,790 --> 00:42:46,640
your side too this is a shorter clip

1096
00:42:50,550 --> 00:42:48,800
this is only about four minutes on this

1097
00:42:53,030 --> 00:42:50,560
one right here here we go

1098
00:42:55,349 --> 00:42:53,040
congressman j edward rausch the people

1099
00:42:57,430 --> 00:42:55,359
should be told i think there's nothing

1100
00:42:59,829 --> 00:42:57,440
which is more frightening than to be

1101
00:43:02,309 --> 00:42:59,839
confronted with something that is new

1102
00:43:04,230 --> 00:43:02,319
particularly in this area and through

1103
00:43:07,270 --> 00:43:04,240
knowledge we can perhaps relieve the

1104
00:43:10,550 --> 00:43:07,280
fears of a lot of people i want to know

1105
00:43:13,190 --> 00:43:10,560
i should know i deserve to know and this

1106
00:43:15,910 --> 00:43:13,200
curiosity which i have and which is

1107
00:43:18,390 --> 00:43:15,920
sweated by the various sightings is such

1108
00:43:19,910 --> 00:43:18,400
that i want to pursue it just as i think

1109
00:43:22,150 --> 00:43:19,920
the great majority of the american

1110
00:43:23,990 --> 00:43:22,160
people would like to pursue the question

1111
00:43:27,270 --> 00:43:24,000
in order to come to the place where they

1112
00:43:29,030 --> 00:43:27,280
have an answer major donald kehoe

1113
00:43:31,589 --> 00:43:29,040
this thing is building up rapidly you

1114
00:43:33,990 --> 00:43:31,599
have publicity constantly almost every

1115
00:43:36,470 --> 00:43:34,000
day there's something on tv or there's a

1116
00:43:39,109 --> 00:43:36,480
signing report there should be a plan an

1117
00:43:41,109 --> 00:43:39,119
operation a gradual teaching of the

1118
00:43:42,710 --> 00:43:41,119
public what these things are

1119
00:43:45,109 --> 00:43:42,720
building on up to the more serious

1120
00:43:46,710 --> 00:43:45,119
aspects but em emphasizing that there is

1121
00:43:48,550 --> 00:43:46,720
no proof of any danger that's the way it

1122
00:43:51,430 --> 00:43:48,560
should have been done long ago

1123
00:43:53,349 --> 00:43:51,440
astronaut gordon cooper i think people

1124
00:43:55,510 --> 00:43:53,359
are prepared for it if it were done in

1125
00:43:56,950 --> 00:43:55,520
the right manner but i think likewise

1126
00:43:58,950 --> 00:43:56,960
the same way that a lot of people don't

1127
00:44:01,670 --> 00:43:58,960
believe anything about ufos because of

1128
00:44:03,750 --> 00:44:01,680
some of the totally absurd treatises

1129
00:44:06,069 --> 00:44:03,760
that have come out on them everyone's

1130
00:44:07,670 --> 00:44:06,079
afraid of the unknown but the more they

1131
00:44:09,910 --> 00:44:07,680
know about them the more that we have

1132
00:44:11,270 --> 00:44:09,920
the likelihood of somebody treating some

1133
00:44:13,270 --> 00:44:11,280
of these with a little friendlier

1134
00:44:14,870 --> 00:44:13,280
fashion and perhaps less frightened

1135
00:44:16,470 --> 00:44:14,880
fashion and maybe we can begin to find

1136
00:44:18,790 --> 00:44:16,480
out more about them

1137
00:44:21,270 --> 00:44:18,800
astronaut jim mcdivitt there are an

1138
00:44:23,589 --> 00:44:21,280
awful lot of stars in our universe and

1139
00:44:25,349 --> 00:44:23,599
our star our sun has a lot of planets

1140
00:44:27,109 --> 00:44:25,359
around it and it would seem highly

1141
00:44:28,710 --> 00:44:27,119
egotistical i think that if we thought

1142
00:44:31,430 --> 00:44:28,720
that we were the only planet in the

1143
00:44:33,670 --> 00:44:31,440
entire universe that had life on it and

1144
00:44:35,270 --> 00:44:33,680
i can't imagine myself that there aren't

1145
00:44:37,190 --> 00:44:35,280
environments throughout that entire

1146
00:44:38,069 --> 00:44:37,200
universe that are in some way similar to

1147
00:44:39,750 --> 00:44:38,079
ours

1148
00:44:42,150 --> 00:44:39,760
this is betty hill

1149
00:44:44,470 --> 00:44:42,160
knowledge belongs to everyone

1150
00:44:47,829 --> 00:44:44,480
i don't think anyone has the right to

1151
00:44:49,589 --> 00:44:47,839
censor or deny or prevent anyone from

1152
00:44:51,750 --> 00:44:49,599
learning i think the people have the

1153
00:44:53,510 --> 00:44:51,760
right to know because ufos is

1154
00:44:55,750 --> 00:44:53,520
everybody's business

1155
00:44:57,990 --> 00:44:55,760
dr j alan heineck

1156
00:45:01,030 --> 00:44:58,000
the large would depend on how the news

1157
00:45:02,950 --> 00:45:01,040
was broken to us what is the whole point

1158
00:45:05,109 --> 00:45:02,960
if something is so

1159
00:45:07,460 --> 00:45:05,119
good heavens we should be mature enough

1160
00:45:11,910 --> 00:45:07,470
to know what the situation is

1161
00:45:16,470 --> 00:45:13,990
we're just now beginning to explore

1162
00:45:18,470 --> 00:45:16,480
beyond our own planet

1163
00:45:20,309 --> 00:45:18,480
it's not inconceivable that other

1164
00:45:22,630 --> 00:45:20,319
civilizations could have already begun

1165
00:45:25,990 --> 00:45:22,640
their exploration of other planetary

1166
00:45:28,390 --> 00:45:26,000
systems including our own solar system

1167
00:45:30,390 --> 00:45:28,400
it is after all one of the objectives of

1168
00:45:32,630 --> 00:45:30,400
our space program

1169
00:45:34,150 --> 00:45:32,640
to seek out and study other forms of

1170
00:45:35,829 --> 00:45:34,160
life

1171
00:45:37,190 --> 00:45:35,839
i urge you to keep an open mind about

1172
00:45:39,430 --> 00:45:37,200
ufos

1173
00:45:41,349 --> 00:45:39,440
and the probability of the existence of

1174
00:45:43,030 --> 00:45:41,359
other intelligent life throughout the

1175
00:45:44,950 --> 00:45:43,040
universe

1176
00:45:46,710 --> 00:45:44,960
because it is there

1177
00:45:49,190 --> 00:45:46,720
think about that the next time you gaze

1178
00:45:51,510 --> 00:45:49,200
up at the stars on a clear night

1179
00:45:54,630 --> 00:45:51,520
gaze long and hard

1180
00:45:56,950 --> 00:45:54,640
the credibility factor of ufos

1181
00:46:11,430 --> 00:45:56,960
needn't stretch the imagination

1182
00:46:14,710 --> 00:46:13,190
i'll get to it

1183
00:46:17,349 --> 00:46:14,720
oh that was great

1184
00:46:19,589 --> 00:46:17,359
you know with every person who i

1185
00:46:21,109 --> 00:46:19,599
interviewed on that album

1186
00:46:23,109 --> 00:46:21,119
i was sitting there on the other side of

1187
00:46:25,430 --> 00:46:23,119
the microphone and

1188
00:46:27,190 --> 00:46:25,440
while they were answering my questions

1189
00:46:30,710 --> 00:46:27,200
i kept thinking to myself god please

1190
00:46:32,630 --> 00:46:30,720
somebody pinch me this is great stuff

1191
00:46:33,910 --> 00:46:32,640
i'm i'm getting nobody's going to

1192
00:46:36,230 --> 00:46:33,920
believe this

1193
00:46:37,109 --> 00:46:36,240
and and and here's another thing

1194
00:46:38,470 --> 00:46:37,119
that

1195
00:46:39,829 --> 00:46:38,480
people don't realize

1196
00:46:40,870 --> 00:46:39,839
you know when you do an interview with

1197
00:46:42,790 --> 00:46:40,880
someone i mean you're not just going to

1198
00:46:44,230 --> 00:46:42,800
meet them for 10 or 15 minutes you're

1199
00:46:46,150 --> 00:46:44,240
going to sit with them for a while spend

1200
00:46:48,870 --> 00:46:46,160
a day with them and get a lot of

1201
00:46:51,190 --> 00:46:48,880
really good information in an interview

1202
00:46:53,270 --> 00:46:51,200
i can't block them and and and like you

1203
00:46:55,589 --> 00:46:53,280
you do you edit down

1204
00:46:59,990 --> 00:46:55,599
to the most interesting relevant stuff

1205
00:47:01,349 --> 00:47:00,000
to put on on a 40 45 minute album

1206
00:47:03,510 --> 00:47:01,359
and i still have all the original

1207
00:47:06,069 --> 00:47:03,520
interview tapes that have stuff on them

1208
00:47:07,910 --> 00:47:06,079
that no one no one has ever heard i

1209
00:47:11,270 --> 00:47:07,920
haven't even listened to these

1210
00:47:12,230 --> 00:47:11,280
recordings in almost 50 years

1211
00:47:14,550 --> 00:47:12,240
so

1212
00:47:16,470 --> 00:47:14,560
there's a lot of stuff there that is

1213
00:47:18,069 --> 00:47:16,480
just sitting there waiting to be heard

1214
00:47:19,990 --> 00:47:18,079
and i that's

1215
00:47:23,430 --> 00:47:20,000
one of the reasons that it's almost

1216
00:47:25,829 --> 00:47:23,440
forcing me to to re-release this to give

1217
00:47:28,870 --> 00:47:25,839
i guess a new generation of people uh

1218
00:47:31,510 --> 00:47:28,880
maybe another piece of credibility

1219
00:47:33,750 --> 00:47:31,520
in the ufo field that maybe wasn't there

1220
00:47:34,870 --> 00:47:33,760
so i'm proud of it have always been

1221
00:47:36,470 --> 00:47:34,880
proud of this

1222
00:47:38,470 --> 00:47:36,480
and if it wasn't

1223
00:47:40,069 --> 00:47:38,480
for this record album

1224
00:47:41,589 --> 00:47:40,079
i never would have made it to the united

1225
00:47:43,510 --> 00:47:41,599
nations

1226
00:47:45,750 --> 00:47:43,520
without this album yes let's talk a

1227
00:47:49,589 --> 00:47:45,760
little bit about that

1228
00:47:52,150 --> 00:47:49,599
that that is just totally amazing to me

1229
00:47:54,309 --> 00:47:52,160
well after after the album came out uh

1230
00:47:55,510 --> 00:47:54,319
in 1976

1231
00:48:04,630 --> 00:47:55,520
and

1232
00:48:07,670 --> 00:48:04,640
started thinking well okay i've done

1233
00:48:08,549 --> 00:48:07,680
this album what left is there for me to

1234
00:48:09,750 --> 00:48:08,559
do

1235
00:48:11,829 --> 00:48:09,760
i mean really

1236
00:48:13,829 --> 00:48:11,839
you know who am i i mean you know what

1237
00:48:16,230 --> 00:48:13,839
what else do i think i can do

1238
00:48:17,270 --> 00:48:16,240
and i thought boy i i would like to

1239
00:48:21,510 --> 00:48:17,280
reach

1240
00:48:23,750 --> 00:48:21,520
a larger audience somehow if possible

1241
00:48:25,589 --> 00:48:23,760
and and and

1242
00:48:26,710 --> 00:48:25,599
a couple of people friends of mine had

1243
00:48:28,309 --> 00:48:26,720
said well why don't you take it to the

1244
00:48:30,870 --> 00:48:28,319
united nations and i thought i don't

1245
00:48:32,950 --> 00:48:30,880
know united nations really

1246
00:48:35,670 --> 00:48:32,960
and then others said to me no you you

1247
00:48:37,109 --> 00:48:35,680
you can't just go to the united nations

1248
00:48:39,750 --> 00:48:37,119
and knock on the front door and say

1249
00:48:41,670 --> 00:48:39,760
hello um may i come in and talk to

1250
00:48:44,950 --> 00:48:41,680
someone about doing a presentation here

1251
00:48:46,390 --> 00:48:44,960
about ufos and either a they would

1252
00:48:48,150 --> 00:48:46,400
politely

1253
00:48:51,510 --> 00:48:48,160
ask you to leave or they would

1254
00:48:54,150 --> 00:48:51,520
impolitely have you arrested for even

1255
00:48:56,950 --> 00:48:54,160
even thinking of such a thing

1256
00:48:59,190 --> 00:48:56,960
and and someone else said to me

1257
00:49:02,390 --> 00:48:59,200
the only way you can do a presentation

1258
00:49:03,750 --> 00:49:02,400
at the united nations is if you are

1259
00:49:05,349 --> 00:49:03,760
a citizen

1260
00:49:08,069 --> 00:49:05,359
of a country

1261
00:49:11,510 --> 00:49:08,079
that is interested in this topic and

1262
00:49:13,670 --> 00:49:11,520
wants to do a presentation and pro and

1263
00:49:15,349 --> 00:49:13,680
sponsor it for the country

1264
00:49:17,670 --> 00:49:15,359
and i thought well okay and i did some

1265
00:49:20,230 --> 00:49:17,680
digging and

1266
00:49:22,710 --> 00:49:20,240
in 1978

1267
00:49:24,630 --> 00:49:22,720
the little country of grenada was the

1268
00:49:26,549 --> 00:49:24,640
only game in town

1269
00:49:29,430 --> 00:49:26,559
no other country

1270
00:49:31,030 --> 00:49:29,440
on earth was doing anything

1271
00:49:33,430 --> 00:49:31,040
to open up

1272
00:49:34,630 --> 00:49:33,440
the subject of ufos

1273
00:49:38,549 --> 00:49:34,640
but there

1274
00:49:40,069 --> 00:49:38,559
in like early 1977 i started noticing

1275
00:49:43,030 --> 00:49:40,079
every once in a while

1276
00:49:45,109 --> 00:49:43,040
the prime minister of grenada eric gary

1277
00:49:47,670 --> 00:49:45,119
was doing these little speeches and

1278
00:49:49,030 --> 00:49:47,680
press conferences and trying to get the

1279
00:49:51,670 --> 00:49:49,040
the media

1280
00:49:53,750 --> 00:49:51,680
and the un interested in his personal

1281
00:49:56,790 --> 00:49:53,760
ufo crusade

1282
00:49:58,710 --> 00:49:56,800
uh he wanted to create some kind of a of

1283
00:50:01,109 --> 00:49:58,720
a ufo committee

1284
00:50:04,069 --> 00:50:01,119
that that would be open internationally

1285
00:50:05,990 --> 00:50:04,079
for all countries of the world to to uh

1286
00:50:07,990 --> 00:50:06,000
to share information

1287
00:50:08,870 --> 00:50:08,000
and and just you know share it with each

1288
00:50:10,710 --> 00:50:08,880
other

1289
00:50:12,870 --> 00:50:10,720
and and that he wanted the country of

1290
00:50:14,870 --> 00:50:12,880
grenada to be the clearinghouse let's

1291
00:50:17,510 --> 00:50:14,880
have this little committee happen in my

1292
00:50:19,750 --> 00:50:17,520
country and i'm thinking

1293
00:50:21,829 --> 00:50:19,760
no it's an interesting idea but

1294
00:50:24,390 --> 00:50:21,839
no i wouldn't want to i wouldn't want to

1295
00:50:26,710 --> 00:50:24,400
open it in in grenada

1296
00:50:27,829 --> 00:50:26,720
if we could even get that far

1297
00:50:29,430 --> 00:50:27,839
and so

1298
00:50:32,390 --> 00:50:29,440
but again nobody was doing anything

1299
00:50:33,510 --> 00:50:32,400
about ufos so i i got in touch with the

1300
00:50:35,349 --> 00:50:33,520
um

1301
00:50:37,910 --> 00:50:35,359
with the grenada mission as you probably

1302
00:50:40,549 --> 00:50:37,920
know every country in the united nations

1303
00:50:43,510 --> 00:50:40,559
they have their own offices in and

1304
00:50:45,589 --> 00:50:43,520
around the united nations area in on the

1305
00:50:47,510 --> 00:50:45,599
east side of new york and they're called

1306
00:50:48,470 --> 00:50:47,520
missions each country has its own

1307
00:50:51,190 --> 00:50:48,480
mission

1308
00:50:53,190 --> 00:50:51,200
and so i just got in touch with the

1309
00:50:55,670 --> 00:50:53,200
country of grenada mission

1310
00:50:57,829 --> 00:50:55,680
and i got one of the ambassadors on the

1311
00:50:59,670 --> 00:50:57,839
phone introduced myself

1312
00:51:02,950 --> 00:50:59,680
and and said that uh

1313
00:51:05,030 --> 00:51:02,960
emily spiegel uh i just

1314
00:51:07,430 --> 00:51:05,040
recently finished producing

1315
00:51:10,230 --> 00:51:07,440
a recording a documentary record album

1316
00:51:11,910 --> 00:51:10,240
for cbs i wanted to say that so they

1317
00:51:16,150 --> 00:51:11,920
would understand that i did something

1318
00:51:17,349 --> 00:51:16,160
for a large company and i would like to

1319
00:51:19,589 --> 00:51:17,359
present

1320
00:51:22,069 --> 00:51:19,599
my album to your prime minister as a

1321
00:51:23,829 --> 00:51:22,079
gift because i have an idea of of

1322
00:51:25,109 --> 00:51:23,839
something that i could do

1323
00:51:28,309 --> 00:51:25,119
that could help

1324
00:51:30,950 --> 00:51:28,319
him and you and your country

1325
00:51:32,710 --> 00:51:30,960
to be heard by the united nations and

1326
00:51:34,790 --> 00:51:32,720
they said come on down bring your album

1327
00:51:37,910 --> 00:51:34,800
down not not come on down to grenada but

1328
00:51:42,069 --> 00:51:40,470
take a subway come see us and i did i

1329
00:51:44,150 --> 00:51:42,079
bought a copy of the album when it was

1330
00:51:46,549 --> 00:51:44,160
still a vinyl album

1331
00:51:49,349 --> 00:51:46,559
and and they were very nice to me

1332
00:51:51,270 --> 00:51:49,359
and they were going to forward the album

1333
00:51:53,030 --> 00:51:51,280
to grenada to the prime minister and

1334
00:51:54,790 --> 00:51:53,040
they said they'd get back to me

1335
00:51:56,710 --> 00:51:54,800
and a couple of weeks later one of the

1336
00:51:58,470 --> 00:51:56,720
ambassadors called me

1337
00:52:00,630 --> 00:51:58,480
and said that

1338
00:52:04,710 --> 00:52:00,640
prime minister gary was coming to new

1339
00:52:05,750 --> 00:52:04,720
york soon to be knighted as sir eric

1340
00:52:08,230 --> 00:52:05,760
gary

1341
00:52:10,630 --> 00:52:08,240
in a big ceremony at the u.n

1342
00:52:13,829 --> 00:52:10,640
would i like to be uh there would i like

1343
00:52:15,750 --> 00:52:13,839
to come and be part and watch

1344
00:52:17,829 --> 00:52:15,760
there's a ceremony because the prime

1345
00:52:19,589 --> 00:52:17,839
minister would like to talk to you about

1346
00:52:21,510 --> 00:52:19,599
your idea and i said yes i would love

1347
00:52:23,109 --> 00:52:21,520
that very much thank you

1348
00:52:25,750 --> 00:52:23,119
so in the meantime

1349
00:52:28,549 --> 00:52:25,760
i put together an actual proposal

1350
00:52:30,870 --> 00:52:28,559
a proposal of what i would like to do at

1351
00:52:32,950 --> 00:52:30,880
the united nations who i would bring

1352
00:52:35,430 --> 00:52:32,960
what i would show there how i would do

1353
00:52:38,150 --> 00:52:35,440
it what the timeline of it should be

1354
00:52:39,430 --> 00:52:38,160
and and i brought this proposal with me

1355
00:52:40,950 --> 00:52:39,440
to the u.n

1356
00:52:43,109 --> 00:52:40,960
and it was the first time i ever set

1357
00:52:45,910 --> 00:52:43,119
foot in the united nations

1358
00:52:48,470 --> 00:52:45,920
for the coronation the the the knighting

1359
00:52:50,230 --> 00:52:48,480
of sir eric gary it was a whole big deal

1360
00:52:52,069 --> 00:52:50,240
it was very nice to be there

1361
00:52:54,069 --> 00:52:52,079
when it was all over they brought me

1362
00:52:56,069 --> 00:52:54,079
into a private room and then they

1363
00:52:58,150 --> 00:52:56,079
brought the prime minister in and they

1364
00:53:00,230 --> 00:52:58,160
left us there alone and i remember

1365
00:53:02,470 --> 00:53:00,240
thinking why would they leave the the

1366
00:53:03,589 --> 00:53:02,480
leader of their country alone with this

1367
00:53:05,349 --> 00:53:03,599
guy

1368
00:53:08,549 --> 00:53:05,359
exactly

1369
00:53:10,950 --> 00:53:08,559
he was like wait a minute okay you know

1370
00:53:12,870 --> 00:53:10,960
am i being watched other other cameras

1371
00:53:14,950 --> 00:53:12,880
you must have been haley just to let you

1372
00:53:17,190 --> 00:53:14,960
know we only have one minute for kgra

1373
00:53:19,829 --> 00:53:17,200
radio so we're going to continue on but

1374
00:53:22,309 --> 00:53:19,839
just to let you know okay well and so

1375
00:53:25,109 --> 00:53:22,319
and that's kind of how it all started uh

1376
00:53:27,990 --> 00:53:25,119
over a handshake deal

1377
00:53:30,950 --> 00:53:28,000
eric gary agreed to sponsor my proposal

1378
00:53:33,990 --> 00:53:30,960
and i i became an actual delegate of

1379
00:53:36,790 --> 00:53:34,000
grenada they issued me a delegates card

1380
00:53:39,430 --> 00:53:36,800
which made me officially a sponsor of

1381
00:53:41,910 --> 00:53:39,440
grenada and allowed me to go to the un

1382
00:53:44,470 --> 00:53:41,920
whenever i want through the main gates

1383
00:53:47,270 --> 00:53:44,480
of security to have meetings with people

1384
00:53:49,910 --> 00:53:47,280
and because of what i was doing there

1385
00:53:52,230 --> 00:53:49,920
word got back to the state department of

1386
00:53:54,390 --> 00:53:52,240
washington we later learned and they

1387
00:53:55,750 --> 00:53:54,400
were also keeping an eye on what i was

1388
00:53:59,190 --> 00:53:55,760
doing with the people that i was

1389
00:54:00,390 --> 00:53:59,200
bringing to the united nations

1390
00:54:02,630 --> 00:54:00,400
all right so we're just going to say

1391
00:54:04,630 --> 00:54:02,640
goodbye right now to the people at kgra

1392
00:54:05,990 --> 00:54:04,640
radio if you're watching on facebook or

1393
00:54:13,670 --> 00:54:06,000
youtube hang in there we'll be right

1394
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:23,910
so

1395
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:37,589
[Music]

1396
00:54:43,349 --> 00:54:40,309
yeah great so we're continuing on here i

1397
00:54:44,789 --> 00:54:43,359
forgot to announce that uh next week

1398
00:54:47,349 --> 00:54:44,799
guest i wanted to tell the people over

1399
00:54:50,309 --> 00:54:47,359
at kgra radio but before i forget we

1400
00:54:53,510 --> 00:54:50,319
have frank marcis he's the senior

1401
00:54:55,750 --> 00:54:53,520
planetary astronomer at seti institute

1402
00:54:58,230 --> 00:54:55,760
uh he'll be on next week uh so it should

1403
00:55:01,109 --> 00:54:58,240
be a very interesting show and we are

1404
00:55:02,309 --> 00:55:01,119
going to talk about ufos and seti

1405
00:55:04,150 --> 00:55:02,319
together

1406
00:55:08,470 --> 00:55:04,160
somehow i i have a question for you to

1407
00:55:12,150 --> 00:55:08,480
ask him okay the question is

1408
00:55:14,470 --> 00:55:12,160
why why doesn't citi why don't steady

1409
00:55:16,390 --> 00:55:14,480
scientists especially astronomers why

1410
00:55:19,510 --> 00:55:16,400
don't they like to talk about ufos in

1411
00:55:23,510 --> 00:55:19,520
general what is the overall opinion

1412
00:55:25,109 --> 00:55:23,520
of seti of ufos oh i had seth shawstack

1413
00:55:28,309 --> 00:55:25,119
on three yeah

1414
00:55:30,069 --> 00:55:28,319
and uh he basically told me

1415
00:55:31,990 --> 00:55:30,079
that and some people are pretty angry

1416
00:55:34,549 --> 00:55:32,000
about it but he's a very good debater by

1417
00:55:36,150 --> 00:55:34,559
the way and he told me that

1418
00:55:39,670 --> 00:55:36,160
uh

1419
00:55:41,750 --> 00:55:39,680
if you had a wing of the smithsonian

1420
00:55:42,950 --> 00:55:41,760
with ufo parts then maybe he would

1421
00:55:43,750 --> 00:55:42,960
believe

1422
00:55:46,710 --> 00:55:43,760
that

1423
00:55:49,510 --> 00:55:46,720
they exist and so i basically said does

1424
00:55:52,470 --> 00:55:49,520
this threaten your uh

1425
00:55:53,910 --> 00:55:52,480
your ability to fundraise for seti is

1426
00:55:55,829 --> 00:55:53,920
that why you don't want to talk about

1427
00:55:58,150 --> 00:55:55,839
you know i asked him questions like that

1428
00:56:01,349 --> 00:55:58,160
and you know he was very good at

1429
00:56:03,990 --> 00:56:01,359
working around the question yeah

1430
00:56:05,589 --> 00:56:04,000
but uh and and he he was very good at

1431
00:56:07,430 --> 00:56:05,599
you know kind of making me feel like a

1432
00:56:09,670 --> 00:56:07,440
fool for asking some of the questions i

1433
00:56:12,549 --> 00:56:09,680
did but you know now he's part of the

1434
00:56:14,630 --> 00:56:12,559
galileo project with avi loeb

1435
00:56:17,030 --> 00:56:14,640
so i wonder how that's all going well

1436
00:56:18,710 --> 00:56:17,040
you know i don't know who told me this

1437
00:56:20,870 --> 00:56:18,720
but several months ago

1438
00:56:22,950 --> 00:56:20,880
when i first read

1439
00:56:25,670 --> 00:56:22,960
that his name was associated with the

1440
00:56:28,710 --> 00:56:25,680
galileo project someone else told me

1441
00:56:31,430 --> 00:56:28,720
that he's not actually really a part of

1442
00:56:34,069 --> 00:56:31,440
it i don't know that he was even

1443
00:56:36,710 --> 00:56:34,079
invited by

1444
00:56:38,230 --> 00:56:36,720
by dr avi loeb i mean it could be wrong

1445
00:56:41,349 --> 00:56:38,240
but

1446
00:56:44,630 --> 00:56:41,359
seth shostak's overall

1447
00:56:46,549 --> 00:56:44,640
opinion about ufos is that until like

1448
00:56:49,829 --> 00:56:46,559
until the smithsonian has pieces and

1449
00:56:52,230 --> 00:56:49,839
parts from a ufo or flying saucer um

1450
00:56:53,910 --> 00:56:52,240
then there's no evidence at all that we

1451
00:56:54,789 --> 00:56:53,920
should even consider

1452
00:56:56,630 --> 00:56:54,799
that

1453
00:56:58,230 --> 00:56:56,640
something from far away

1454
00:56:59,750 --> 00:56:58,240
is visiting us

1455
00:57:02,230 --> 00:56:59,760
they they just won't consider that and

1456
00:57:05,430 --> 00:57:02,240
avi loeb's opinion is

1457
00:57:07,190 --> 00:57:05,440
we think that something has come past us

1458
00:57:10,549 --> 00:57:07,200
and that there might be other things

1459
00:57:12,710 --> 00:57:10,559
that indicate that we are not alone

1460
00:57:14,630 --> 00:57:12,720
and i wouldn't think that they would

1461
00:57:16,950 --> 00:57:14,640
want anyone

1462
00:57:17,910 --> 00:57:16,960
in that study the galileo study or the

1463
00:57:19,510 --> 00:57:17,920
project

1464
00:57:20,710 --> 00:57:19,520
to to be

1465
00:57:22,549 --> 00:57:20,720
tossing in

1466
00:57:24,230 --> 00:57:22,559
sentences like no

1467
00:57:26,630 --> 00:57:24,240
there is there is no evidence that

1468
00:57:27,990 --> 00:57:26,640
there's any life out there all that

1469
00:57:30,309 --> 00:57:28,000
we're doing is just putting all of our

1470
00:57:32,549 --> 00:57:30,319
money in our funding into listening with

1471
00:57:35,030 --> 00:57:32,559
our little radio telescopes and find a

1472
00:57:37,750 --> 00:57:35,040
signal and and then you say to them okay

1473
00:57:40,549 --> 00:57:37,760
what if we do get a signal from

1474
00:57:43,030 --> 00:57:40,559
somewhere and it's maybe like a

1475
00:57:45,349 --> 00:57:43,040
two or three words like hi

1476
00:57:47,829 --> 00:57:45,359
and we can actually get that signal

1477
00:57:50,069 --> 00:57:47,839
and we can figure out a way of replying

1478
00:57:52,950 --> 00:57:50,079
like hi back to you

1479
00:57:54,710 --> 00:57:52,960
how long would that exchange take how

1480
00:57:57,349 --> 00:57:54,720
many more decades

1481
00:57:59,430 --> 00:57:57,359
would it be to get to the third exchange

1482
00:58:01,910 --> 00:57:59,440
and there'll be none of us left on earth

1483
00:58:04,069 --> 00:58:01,920
anyway who are talking about this now

1484
00:58:07,270 --> 00:58:04,079
and it's like really

1485
00:58:09,750 --> 00:58:07,280
and and i once did a project with dr

1486
00:58:11,990 --> 00:58:09,760
frank drake who created the city

1487
00:58:13,670 --> 00:58:12,000
institute we we worked on a radio show

1488
00:58:16,470 --> 00:58:13,680
together and we were alone in a

1489
00:58:19,589 --> 00:58:16,480
conference room and i said to him frank

1490
00:58:20,789 --> 00:58:19,599
um i i know how the the seti institute

1491
00:58:24,390 --> 00:58:20,799
normally

1492
00:58:26,470 --> 00:58:24,400
likes to avoid talking about ufos

1493
00:58:29,829 --> 00:58:26,480
and how do you feel about it and he said

1494
00:58:31,109 --> 00:58:29,839
to me well i i haven't really been shown

1495
00:58:33,829 --> 00:58:31,119
anything

1496
00:58:36,630 --> 00:58:33,839
by officials that would make me consider

1497
00:58:37,670 --> 00:58:36,640
that something is here and i said but

1498
00:58:41,430 --> 00:58:37,680
frank

1499
00:58:43,270 --> 00:58:41,440
they're landing in people's backyards

1500
00:58:45,829 --> 00:58:43,280
and does that mean that everyone who

1501
00:58:47,910 --> 00:58:45,839
makes these kinds of reports

1502
00:58:48,870 --> 00:58:47,920
are lying that they're out of their

1503
00:58:51,510 --> 00:58:48,880
minds

1504
00:58:53,910 --> 00:58:51,520
they're they're crazy

1505
00:58:57,510 --> 00:58:53,920
they're they're just totally out of out

1506
00:58:59,670 --> 00:58:57,520
of reality we can't continue to have

1507
00:59:03,589 --> 00:58:59,680
that attitude about people there has to

1508
00:59:05,109 --> 00:59:03,599
be a new attitude that requires science

1509
00:59:07,030 --> 00:59:05,119
looking at this

1510
00:59:08,150 --> 00:59:07,040
there's too much going on

1511
00:59:09,990 --> 00:59:08,160
uh

1512
00:59:12,150 --> 00:59:10,000
and i even reminded him like i do all

1513
00:59:15,190 --> 00:59:12,160
the time frank have you ever heard of

1514
00:59:16,390 --> 00:59:15,200
general nathan twining 1947 memo i mean

1515
00:59:19,349 --> 00:59:16,400
come on

1516
00:59:21,109 --> 00:59:19,359
this is nothing new

1517
00:59:22,789 --> 00:59:21,119
i'm glad you asked those questions

1518
00:59:24,950 --> 00:59:22,799
anyway you know and

1519
00:59:26,870 --> 00:59:24,960
um you know i've i've talked to i talked

1520
00:59:28,710 --> 00:59:26,880
to stan freeman many times about seti

1521
00:59:31,190 --> 00:59:28,720
you know and he had that i forgot what

1522
00:59:33,030 --> 00:59:31,200
he called the uh silly

1523
00:59:36,309 --> 00:59:33,040
uh i i forget what he he had a great

1524
00:59:38,710 --> 00:59:36,319
phrase for it but but anyway um you know

1525
00:59:41,349 --> 00:59:38,720
it's it's better than doing nothing

1526
00:59:44,549 --> 00:59:41,359
them yeah at least looking but i mean

1527
00:59:48,150 --> 00:59:46,470
find a radio signal

1528
00:59:50,549 --> 00:59:48,160
we have no idea how they would

1529
00:59:52,630 --> 00:59:50,559
communicate that's right i have no idea

1530
00:59:55,589 --> 00:59:52,640
when and how

1531
00:59:57,670 --> 00:59:55,599
um different society levels can

1532
01:00:00,470 --> 00:59:57,680
pass by each other

1533
01:00:01,670 --> 01:00:00,480
you know for technology or what type of

1534
01:00:03,109 --> 01:00:01,680
technology

1535
01:00:04,950 --> 01:00:03,119
you know are they

1536
01:00:06,150 --> 01:00:04,960
so far advanced that they're using

1537
01:00:08,789 --> 01:00:06,160
something that

1538
01:00:10,870 --> 01:00:08,799
radio signals are passe for for

1539
01:00:13,270 --> 01:00:10,880
thousands of years who knows

1540
01:00:15,109 --> 01:00:13,280
but um if they find something i think

1541
01:00:16,710 --> 01:00:15,119
that james webb has more of a chance in

1542
01:00:19,030 --> 01:00:16,720
finding something then

1543
01:00:20,150 --> 01:00:19,040
um with the atmospheres they they will

1544
01:00:23,190 --> 01:00:20,160
be able to

1545
01:00:25,270 --> 01:00:23,200
detect uh you know pollutions and

1546
01:00:27,589 --> 01:00:25,280
atmospheres i believe by colors or

1547
01:00:29,670 --> 01:00:27,599
something yeah about about a week ago

1548
01:00:32,230 --> 01:00:29,680
one of the one of the first images that

1549
01:00:34,230 --> 01:00:32,240
came back from the web um

1550
01:00:37,270 --> 01:00:34,240
was an image that uh they said they were

1551
01:00:42,069 --> 01:00:37,280
definitely now able to to to know one of

1552
01:00:43,510 --> 01:00:42,079
the large exoplanets around a far sun

1553
01:00:45,829 --> 01:00:43,520
it now shows

1554
01:00:47,109 --> 01:00:45,839
definitely that it has water in its

1555
01:00:49,670 --> 01:00:47,119
atmosphere

1556
01:00:52,789 --> 01:00:49,680
and wow and we didn't know that before

1557
01:00:56,150 --> 01:00:52,799
before james webb got got turned on

1558
01:00:58,630 --> 01:00:56,160
so now it's not to say that this planet

1559
01:01:00,069 --> 01:00:58,640
has life on it or what kind of life it

1560
01:01:03,349 --> 01:01:00,079
is but the fact that

1561
01:01:05,190 --> 01:01:03,359
we're that much closer to even knowing

1562
01:01:06,630 --> 01:01:05,200
but again then you have to

1563
01:01:09,270 --> 01:01:06,640
you have to ask the next question okay

1564
01:01:12,309 --> 01:01:09,280
well so let's say we find whatever maybe

1565
01:01:13,829 --> 01:01:12,319
is the closest exoplanet to earth

1566
01:01:16,950 --> 01:01:13,839
that maybe has

1567
01:01:18,549 --> 01:01:16,960
possible life on it so what

1568
01:01:20,470 --> 01:01:18,559
is my my question

1569
01:01:22,630 --> 01:01:20,480
how do we get there

1570
01:01:27,190 --> 01:01:22,640
we we currently

1571
01:01:29,109 --> 01:01:27,200
don't have the technology the

1572
01:01:33,270 --> 01:01:29,119
the star trek or the star wars

1573
01:01:36,069 --> 01:01:33,280
technology warp speed hyperdrive to get

1574
01:01:38,789 --> 01:01:36,079
us there in a couple of minutes we we

1575
01:01:40,950 --> 01:01:38,799
don't have that but it's like

1576
01:01:42,950 --> 01:01:40,960
every time stanton friedman used to do a

1577
01:01:45,190 --> 01:01:42,960
lecture he would always say to his

1578
01:01:46,309 --> 01:01:45,200
audiences he would say

1579
01:01:49,349 --> 01:01:46,319
all of the

1580
01:01:52,309 --> 01:01:49,359
skeptics the naysayers the debunkers

1581
01:01:54,710 --> 01:01:52,319
they all live by the same mantra and

1582
01:01:56,870 --> 01:01:54,720
that mantra is

1583
01:01:59,109 --> 01:01:56,880
don't bother me with the facts yeah my

1584
01:02:01,670 --> 01:01:59,119
mind is already made up

1585
01:02:03,430 --> 01:02:01,680
or he or he would say another one you

1586
01:02:09,349 --> 01:02:03,440
say

1587
01:02:11,430 --> 01:02:09,359
um

1588
01:02:13,430 --> 01:02:11,440
is impossible what they're really saying

1589
01:02:15,190 --> 01:02:13,440
is i don't know how to do that

1590
01:02:16,710 --> 01:02:15,200
so so if i don't know how to do it that

1591
01:02:17,750 --> 01:02:16,720
means nobody else knows how to do it

1592
01:02:19,029 --> 01:02:17,760
either

1593
01:02:21,589 --> 01:02:19,039
and and

1594
01:02:24,150 --> 01:02:21,599
how long have we been

1595
01:02:26,150 --> 01:02:24,160
with technology that can fly in the

1596
01:02:28,230 --> 01:02:26,160
skies i mean we're talking

1597
01:02:30,950 --> 01:02:28,240
wright brothers or pre-write brothers

1598
01:02:33,510 --> 01:02:30,960
with with aircraft but has it been more

1599
01:02:38,230 --> 01:02:33,520
than 200 years that we've had

1600
01:02:41,190 --> 01:02:38,240
flying ability technology so let's say

1601
01:02:44,309 --> 01:02:41,200
any other planet somewhere out there

1602
01:02:46,950 --> 01:02:44,319
that may be oh let's give them 500 years

1603
01:02:48,950 --> 01:02:46,960
ahead of us well let's let's be let's be

1604
01:02:51,109 --> 01:02:48,960
nice give him a thousand years ahead of

1605
01:02:52,789 --> 01:02:51,119
us do you think someone who's a thousand

1606
01:02:55,910 --> 01:02:52,799
years ahead of us now

1607
01:02:57,829 --> 01:02:55,920
has the ability to do some hopscotching

1608
01:02:59,829 --> 01:02:57,839
through wormholes or

1609
01:03:01,270 --> 01:02:59,839
better yet

1610
01:03:03,990 --> 01:03:01,280
time travel

1611
01:03:06,069 --> 01:03:04,000
the whole michael masters idea of

1612
01:03:07,029 --> 01:03:06,079
many ufos could be

1613
01:03:08,789 --> 01:03:07,039
us

1614
01:03:11,349 --> 01:03:08,799
our descendants

1615
01:03:14,470 --> 01:03:11,359
using time travel technology in the

1616
01:03:17,270 --> 01:03:14,480
distant future to come back in time to

1617
01:03:18,789 --> 01:03:17,280
study their own past

1618
01:03:21,190 --> 01:03:18,799
gotta love that

1619
01:03:23,829 --> 01:03:21,200
yeah yeah i i do love that i think that

1620
01:03:26,150 --> 01:03:23,839
is a fantastic thought

1621
01:03:29,589 --> 01:03:26,160
um so i was i actually got to see the

1622
01:03:31,910 --> 01:03:29,599
james webb uh telescope as it was being

1623
01:03:33,510 --> 01:03:31,920
built how cool and yeah i took a bunch

1624
01:03:35,589 --> 01:03:33,520
of pictures just looking for them now i

1625
01:03:37,430 --> 01:03:35,599
have them somewhere ah and um you know

1626
01:03:39,670 --> 01:03:37,440
people are all dressed up in their like

1627
01:03:41,349 --> 01:03:39,680
hazmat white suits and yeah they were

1628
01:03:43,029 --> 01:03:41,359
very very careful this time because you

1629
01:03:44,870 --> 01:03:43,039
know the hubble space

1630
01:03:47,430 --> 01:03:44,880
craft i mean the hubble telescope when

1631
01:03:49,430 --> 01:03:47,440
that went up it had two microns

1632
01:03:52,710 --> 01:03:49,440
were off in the mirror which caused

1633
01:03:54,710 --> 01:03:52,720
blurriness yeah now the web had a like a

1634
01:03:57,430 --> 01:03:54,720
folding type of mirror

1635
01:03:59,349 --> 01:03:57,440
which is really amazing that everything

1636
01:04:01,990 --> 01:03:59,359
worked perfectly because they only had

1637
01:04:04,230 --> 01:04:02,000
one shot at a million miles away that's

1638
01:04:07,029 --> 01:04:04,240
right no way we could ever get to it to

1639
01:04:09,430 --> 01:04:07,039
to work on it exactly so uh yeah we had

1640
01:04:11,349 --> 01:04:09,440
the one shot and can you imagine with

1641
01:04:14,230 --> 01:04:11,359
the billions of dollars i think it went

1642
01:04:16,390 --> 01:04:14,240
way over budget uh they kept having to

1643
01:04:18,789 --> 01:04:16,400
raise the stakes on that to make sure

1644
01:04:21,829 --> 01:04:18,799
that it it's at a very cold temperature

1645
01:04:23,190 --> 01:04:21,839
something like 300 below zero fahrenheit

1646
01:04:25,190 --> 01:04:23,200
and uh

1647
01:04:27,750 --> 01:04:25,200
it has to re it has to maintain that

1648
01:04:30,549 --> 01:04:27,760
cold temperature in order to work

1649
01:04:31,910 --> 01:04:30,559
properly so there's a shield for the sun

1650
01:04:33,349 --> 01:04:31,920
there's all these different things that

1651
01:04:34,870 --> 01:04:33,359
are involved it's really amazing

1652
01:04:37,270 --> 01:04:34,880
technology

1653
01:04:38,870 --> 01:04:37,280
uh i know and the i think i read an

1654
01:04:41,109 --> 01:04:38,880
early report that once it got out there

1655
01:04:43,109 --> 01:04:41,119
and it unfolded and was getting going

1656
01:04:44,630 --> 01:04:43,119
through all of its early testing

1657
01:04:47,430 --> 01:04:44,640
uh that

1658
01:04:50,870 --> 01:04:47,440
there were a few instances where micro

1659
01:04:51,589 --> 01:04:50,880
micro micro meteoroids had hit it you

1660
01:04:53,910 --> 01:04:51,599
know

1661
01:04:56,549 --> 01:04:53,920
yep uh but didn't they're going like 40

1662
01:04:59,109 --> 01:04:56,559
somewhat thousand miles an hour yeah you

1663
01:05:01,349 --> 01:04:59,119
know and uh yeah a bullet can travels at

1664
01:05:03,109 --> 01:05:01,359
a fraction of that yeah

1665
01:05:04,789 --> 01:05:03,119
it's like so the amount of money and the

1666
01:05:06,549 --> 01:05:04,799
amount of risks

1667
01:05:09,190 --> 01:05:06,559
but so far

1668
01:05:11,750 --> 01:05:09,200
um the rewards have been incredible so

1669
01:05:14,230 --> 01:05:11,760
far i hope we get the 20 years plus out

1670
01:05:16,710 --> 01:05:14,240
of it that would be just amazing

1671
01:05:18,549 --> 01:05:16,720
someone in chat that has asked

1672
01:05:19,990 --> 01:05:18,559
over and over again i i'm not familiar

1673
01:05:23,190 --> 01:05:20,000
with this person maybe it's the first

1674
01:05:25,510 --> 01:05:23,200
time he's visiting uh welcome anyway ray

1675
01:05:26,630 --> 01:05:25,520
nash uh he wants to know why there

1676
01:05:29,829 --> 01:05:26,640
aren't any

1677
01:05:33,430 --> 01:05:29,839
uh interviews with max brazil uh mac

1678
01:05:34,549 --> 01:05:33,440
brazil is it mac brazil from uh roswell

1679
01:05:36,789 --> 01:05:34,559
well i don't know

1680
01:05:39,670 --> 01:05:36,799
interviews i've never seen one i don't

1681
01:05:44,470 --> 01:05:41,910
i i have heard

1682
01:05:45,510 --> 01:05:44,480
i have heard audio interviews that he

1683
01:05:46,390 --> 01:05:45,520
had done

1684
01:05:49,109 --> 01:05:46,400
um

1685
01:05:51,589 --> 01:05:49,119
possibly with like one of the local

1686
01:05:55,029 --> 01:05:51,599
roswell radio stations but i believe

1687
01:05:57,829 --> 01:05:55,039
that he did them

1688
01:06:00,630 --> 01:05:57,839
under under the watchful eye

1689
01:06:03,109 --> 01:06:00,640
of whoever was in charge of keeping

1690
01:06:05,910 --> 01:06:03,119
things quiet on what it was that crashed

1691
01:06:07,910 --> 01:06:05,920
on the ranch there in roswell because

1692
01:06:09,750 --> 01:06:07,920
once once he went to the military and

1693
01:06:12,069 --> 01:06:09,760
you know started saying like this thing

1694
01:06:13,750 --> 01:06:12,079
landed and i've got these pieces and and

1695
01:06:15,029 --> 01:06:13,760
i'm going to go to the to the

1696
01:06:16,789 --> 01:06:15,039
authorities or i'm going to go to the

1697
01:06:19,109 --> 01:06:16,799
press and talk about it well then you

1698
01:06:21,910 --> 01:06:19,119
know the authorities as they did the day

1699
01:06:24,309 --> 01:06:21,920
after the initial famous roswell

1700
01:06:26,470 --> 01:06:24,319
uh daily record report you know military

1701
01:06:28,150 --> 01:06:26,480
captures ufo or flying saucer and the

1702
01:06:30,549 --> 01:06:28,160
very next day look it was a weather

1703
01:06:33,990 --> 01:06:30,559
balloon sorry we goofed you don't make

1704
01:06:36,630 --> 01:06:34,000
that kind of a goof uh and so i think

1705
01:06:39,430 --> 01:06:36,640
that in in order to

1706
01:06:41,589 --> 01:06:39,440
keep mac brazil quiet

1707
01:06:43,670 --> 01:06:41,599
without actually out and out making him

1708
01:06:44,549 --> 01:06:43,680
disappear

1709
01:06:47,510 --> 01:06:44,559
uh

1710
01:06:49,190 --> 01:06:47,520
was probably a way of of allowing him to

1711
01:06:51,190 --> 01:06:49,200
do some interviews

1712
01:06:53,589 --> 01:06:51,200
i would bet

1713
01:06:57,270 --> 01:06:53,599
martin that if you if you or anyone were

1714
01:06:58,630 --> 01:06:57,280
to just do an actual google search

1715
01:07:04,950 --> 01:06:58,640
for

1716
01:07:06,230 --> 01:07:04,960
who else might be the person to talk to

1717
01:07:07,829 --> 01:07:06,240
about this um

1718
01:07:10,470 --> 01:07:07,839
dave mahler

1719
01:07:13,270 --> 01:07:10,480
i i think we might have an archive of it

1720
01:07:16,470 --> 01:07:13,280
he he dave marla has the most incredible

1721
01:07:19,109 --> 01:07:16,480
ufo facility of research in his at his

1722
01:07:23,349 --> 01:07:19,119
albuquerque home i've been to the place

1723
01:07:25,349 --> 01:07:23,359
it's in fact uh upon his demise

1724
01:07:26,870 --> 01:07:25,359
hopefully not too soon

1725
01:07:29,270 --> 01:07:26,880
everything he has

1726
01:07:32,150 --> 01:07:29,280
is going to go to the university of new

1727
01:07:34,789 --> 01:07:32,160
mexico he already has he is now the

1728
01:07:38,230 --> 01:07:34,799
curator of the complete

1729
01:07:41,510 --> 01:07:38,240
nightcap original files the complete jl

1730
01:07:43,270 --> 01:07:41,520
and heineck personal ufo files all that

1731
01:07:45,109 --> 01:07:43,280
stuff was shipped to him

1732
01:07:47,029 --> 01:07:45,119
over a year ago so he can take

1733
01:07:48,870 --> 01:07:47,039
everything and he's in the process now

1734
01:07:50,230 --> 01:07:48,880
of digitizing

1735
01:07:51,990 --> 01:07:50,240
everything

1736
01:07:53,430 --> 01:07:52,000
i think i'm gonna have to go visit him

1737
01:07:55,109 --> 01:07:53,440
you're gonna have to go visit him and

1738
01:07:57,029 --> 01:07:55,119
maybe even broadcast

1739
01:07:58,870 --> 01:07:57,039
one of your shows that's i would like to

1740
01:08:00,710 --> 01:07:58,880
do that it's um

1741
01:08:02,309 --> 01:08:00,720
talk to him about that

1742
01:08:04,230 --> 01:08:02,319
and i know he'd love to have me out

1743
01:08:05,670 --> 01:08:04,240
there i'm guessing

1744
01:08:06,789 --> 01:08:05,680
i'm going to be in shag harbor in

1745
01:08:09,109 --> 01:08:06,799
october

1746
01:08:10,390 --> 01:08:09,119
i'm going to do a talk up there so that

1747
01:08:12,069 --> 01:08:10,400
should be a lot of fun and dave and i

1748
01:08:14,549 --> 01:08:12,079
are going to be hanging out together oh

1749
01:08:16,950 --> 01:08:14,559
that should be a lot of fun oh good yeah

1750
01:08:18,470 --> 01:08:16,960
um now i want to i want you to i know

1751
01:08:21,110 --> 01:08:18,480
you've talked about this many times on

1752
01:08:22,870 --> 01:08:21,120
my show but it's so incredible uh this

1753
01:08:24,789 --> 01:08:22,880
guy has been patient asked right from

1754
01:08:26,870 --> 01:08:24,799
the very beginning if you would talk

1755
01:08:29,510 --> 01:08:26,880
about this and it's right here could you

1756
01:08:32,709 --> 01:08:29,520
talk about your amazing sighting in

1757
01:08:33,590 --> 01:08:32,719
north carolina the dorito

1758
01:08:35,349 --> 01:08:33,600
well

1759
01:08:37,269 --> 01:08:35,359
yeah i know you've told it many times

1760
01:08:39,669 --> 01:08:37,279
but i love hearing it every time because

1761
01:08:41,669 --> 01:08:39,679
it's just amazing okay

1762
01:08:43,990 --> 01:08:41,679
um and at some point i'm going to ask

1763
01:08:45,910 --> 01:08:44,000
you but not not yet i'm going to ask you

1764
01:08:47,349 --> 01:08:45,920
to put one of those two pages up on the

1765
01:08:49,430 --> 01:08:47,359
screen again

1766
01:08:50,789 --> 01:08:49,440
that that you were showing before at the

1767
01:08:52,870 --> 01:08:50,799
end of both of the clips that you ate

1768
01:08:55,110 --> 01:08:52,880
yeah i do have that okay but don't put

1769
01:08:57,030 --> 01:08:55,120
it up yet okay okay all right i'll cue

1770
01:09:02,149 --> 01:08:57,040
you for that one

1771
01:09:03,430 --> 01:09:02,159
okay uh okay um in 1975 while i was

1772
01:09:05,189 --> 01:09:03,440
in new york

1773
01:09:06,390 --> 01:09:05,199
uh putting together

1774
01:09:09,189 --> 01:09:06,400
on

1775
01:09:11,430 --> 01:09:09,199
the interviews for my ufos the

1776
01:09:14,470 --> 01:09:11,440
credibility factor record album

1777
01:09:17,110 --> 01:09:14,480
i got a call one day from dr heineck

1778
01:09:20,550 --> 01:09:17,120
at the center for ufo studies

1779
01:09:23,910 --> 01:09:20,560
and he told me that he was getting

1780
01:09:28,630 --> 01:09:23,920
a variety of phone calls from

1781
01:09:35,189 --> 01:09:30,950
police officers

1782
01:09:38,070 --> 01:09:35,199
from the lumberton north carolina area

1783
01:09:40,550 --> 01:09:38,080
and they were seeing something odd in

1784
01:09:41,990 --> 01:09:40,560
the skies for like two or three nights

1785
01:09:43,669 --> 01:09:42,000
in a row

1786
01:09:45,910 --> 01:09:43,679
and

1787
01:09:48,550 --> 01:09:45,920
a lot of a lot of police officers a lot

1788
01:09:50,709 --> 01:09:48,560
of police and law enforcement agencies

1789
01:09:53,430 --> 01:09:50,719
and departments around the country were

1790
01:09:55,830 --> 01:09:53,440
all given an 800 number that alan

1791
01:09:57,590 --> 01:09:55,840
heineck had provided them all with

1792
01:09:59,830 --> 01:09:57,600
through the center for ufo studies

1793
01:10:01,669 --> 01:09:59,840
basically said i'm alan heineck i used

1794
01:10:03,669 --> 01:10:01,679
to do this for project blue book now i

1795
01:10:05,270 --> 01:10:03,679
have the center for ufo studies i'd like

1796
01:10:08,229 --> 01:10:05,280
to provide you free of charge with an

1797
01:10:10,550 --> 01:10:08,239
800 number if you folks get inundated

1798
01:10:13,430 --> 01:10:10,560
with the calls in your area give us a

1799
01:10:16,630 --> 01:10:13,440
call we'll see we can do to help and so

1800
01:10:17,910 --> 01:10:16,640
the lumberton police officials contacted

1801
01:10:20,709 --> 01:10:17,920
him and said

1802
01:10:23,510 --> 01:10:20,719
we don't have any people down here that

1803
01:10:25,350 --> 01:10:23,520
can investigate this can you come

1804
01:10:26,229 --> 01:10:25,360
and help us with this

1805
01:10:27,750 --> 01:10:26,239
and

1806
01:10:28,950 --> 01:10:27,760
he asked me

1807
01:10:30,390 --> 01:10:28,960
he said i know that you're working on

1808
01:10:32,630 --> 01:10:30,400
your ufo album

1809
01:10:35,910 --> 01:10:32,640
but do you have any time

1810
01:10:37,830 --> 01:10:35,920
to go down to lumberton and check it out

1811
01:10:40,950 --> 01:10:37,840
and could you do some interviews down

1812
01:10:43,110 --> 01:10:40,960
there with people who are seeing this

1813
01:10:44,630 --> 01:10:43,120
strange object so i said what are they

1814
01:10:48,149 --> 01:10:44,640
seeing

1815
01:10:49,510 --> 01:10:48,159
he said well here in 1975

1816
01:10:52,390 --> 01:10:49,520
they're reporting something that we

1817
01:10:53,510 --> 01:10:52,400
haven't really heard much about

1818
01:10:54,550 --> 01:10:53,520
in recent

1819
01:10:55,990 --> 01:10:54,560
history

1820
01:10:58,630 --> 01:10:56,000
they're seeing something they're saying

1821
01:11:01,110 --> 01:10:58,640
it's either a v-shaped or a triangular

1822
01:11:02,470 --> 01:11:01,120
shape or a boomerang-shaped object in

1823
01:11:06,070 --> 01:11:02,480
the sky

1824
01:11:09,189 --> 01:11:06,080
so i said okay let me get this straight

1825
01:11:11,030 --> 01:11:09,199
instead of a classic flying saucer

1826
01:11:12,870 --> 01:11:11,040
circular shape you know flat on the

1827
01:11:15,189 --> 01:11:12,880
bottom domed on top

1828
01:11:18,229 --> 01:11:15,199
you're asking me to go there and check

1829
01:11:19,110 --> 01:11:18,239
out a flying dorito is is that what

1830
01:11:25,669 --> 01:11:19,120
we're

1831
01:11:27,510 --> 01:11:25,679
if you don't want to go and i said ellen

1832
01:11:28,950 --> 01:11:27,520
don't finish this don't finish that

1833
01:11:31,270 --> 01:11:28,960
thought

1834
01:11:33,270 --> 01:11:31,280
you're the last person in america i want

1835
01:11:35,350 --> 01:11:33,280
to piss off

1836
01:11:37,510 --> 01:11:35,360
i'm going

1837
01:11:38,630 --> 01:11:37,520
i'm definitely going

1838
01:11:40,149 --> 01:11:38,640
uh

1839
01:11:42,550 --> 01:11:40,159
and he said look if you get some really

1840
01:11:44,550 --> 01:11:42,560
good interviews and write up a report

1841
01:11:46,870 --> 01:11:44,560
i'll publish them through the center for

1842
01:11:47,830 --> 01:11:46,880
ufo studies and i said that great thank

1843
01:11:48,870 --> 01:11:47,840
you

1844
01:11:50,149 --> 01:11:48,880
and

1845
01:11:52,870 --> 01:11:50,159
off i went

1846
01:11:54,709 --> 01:11:52,880
and actually flew down to

1847
01:11:57,110 --> 01:11:54,719
north carolina with uh one of the

1848
01:11:59,110 --> 01:11:57,120
reporters for the national star

1849
01:12:01,910 --> 01:11:59,120
uh newspaper which was competing with

1850
01:12:03,830 --> 01:12:01,920
the national enquirer um back then in

1851
01:12:05,270 --> 01:12:03,840
1975

1852
01:12:13,189 --> 01:12:05,280
and

1853
01:12:15,430 --> 01:12:13,199
someone from lumberton they drove us

1854
01:12:17,669 --> 01:12:15,440
down and instead of

1855
01:12:20,070 --> 01:12:17,679
checking in to the local holiday inn we

1856
01:12:22,390 --> 01:12:20,080
went right to the sheriff's department

1857
01:12:24,870 --> 01:12:22,400
and that's where i met sheriff's

1858
01:12:26,790 --> 01:12:24,880
deputy and dispatcher ron thompson

1859
01:12:28,550 --> 01:12:26,800
who i'm still in touch with

1860
01:12:30,870 --> 01:12:28,560
all these years later

1861
01:12:34,229 --> 01:12:30,880
and ron thompson was uh was on the

1862
01:12:35,669 --> 01:12:34,239
dispatcher uh board that night and i was

1863
01:12:37,750 --> 01:12:35,679
there for a while talking to a variety

1864
01:12:39,110 --> 01:12:37,760
of people and all of a sudden after the

1865
01:12:40,229 --> 01:12:39,120
sun went down

1866
01:12:42,470 --> 01:12:40,239
um

1867
01:12:43,510 --> 01:12:42,480
the calls started coming into the the

1868
01:12:45,669 --> 01:12:43,520
board

1869
01:12:47,910 --> 01:12:45,679
and he said to me we've got a lot of

1870
01:12:49,189 --> 01:12:47,920
calls coming in let's go

1871
01:12:50,870 --> 01:12:49,199
and i said well tell me what we're going

1872
01:12:53,110 --> 01:12:50,880
to do he said you're going to come with

1873
01:12:54,390 --> 01:12:53,120
me in one car we're going to have a

1874
01:12:56,229 --> 01:12:54,400
police radio we're going to keep in

1875
01:12:58,550 --> 01:12:56,239
touch with the other police officers in

1876
01:13:00,630 --> 01:12:58,560
different places and we're going to stay

1877
01:13:01,830 --> 01:13:00,640
in touch and see where this thing is

1878
01:13:03,830 --> 01:13:01,840
being seen

1879
01:13:05,189 --> 01:13:03,840
and and we'll follow it and try and

1880
01:13:06,870 --> 01:13:05,199
catch up to it

1881
01:13:12,229 --> 01:13:06,880
and that's what we did and off we went

1882
01:13:15,590 --> 01:13:13,669
and i

1883
01:13:17,590 --> 01:13:15,600
i was i was really excited because i

1884
01:13:19,110 --> 01:13:17,600
didn't know what to expect

1885
01:13:21,510 --> 01:13:19,120
you know i mean what what could you

1886
01:13:22,709 --> 01:13:21,520
expect in a situation like this

1887
01:13:25,030 --> 01:13:22,719
um

1888
01:13:27,189 --> 01:13:25,040
but just a few minutes later we're off

1889
01:13:29,910 --> 01:13:27,199
uh in the wilderness there in the rural

1890
01:13:32,550 --> 01:13:29,920
area outside of lumberton north carolina

1891
01:13:33,669 --> 01:13:32,560
and we pulled up in front of this field

1892
01:13:35,510 --> 01:13:33,679
and

1893
01:13:37,030 --> 01:13:35,520
everybody got out of the cars

1894
01:13:39,750 --> 01:13:37,040
and turned off

1895
01:13:43,030 --> 01:13:39,760
the the car lights and the engines

1896
01:13:45,430 --> 01:13:43,040
and it was very quiet out there and

1897
01:13:46,390 --> 01:13:45,440
the only sound that we could hear in the

1898
01:13:49,189 --> 01:13:46,400
area

1899
01:13:51,910 --> 01:13:49,199
was the sound of animals that were very

1900
01:13:53,750 --> 01:13:51,920
nervous about something you could hear

1901
01:13:55,590 --> 01:13:53,760
horses in the darkness you can hear dogs

1902
01:13:56,870 --> 01:13:55,600
barking there's something that was

1903
01:13:58,229 --> 01:13:56,880
bothering them

1904
01:14:00,630 --> 01:13:58,239
and there were no

1905
01:14:04,070 --> 01:14:00,640
there was no moon out to cast any kind

1906
01:14:05,030 --> 01:14:04,080
of glare and so we could see stars

1907
01:14:09,430 --> 01:14:05,040
and

1908
01:14:11,669 --> 01:14:09,440
in front of us

1909
01:14:12,630 --> 01:14:11,679
there was a line of trees

1910
01:14:14,550 --> 01:14:12,640
and

1911
01:14:16,709 --> 01:14:14,560
from the left side

1912
01:14:18,149 --> 01:14:16,719
moving very slowly to from our left to

1913
01:14:20,070 --> 01:14:18,159
our right

1914
01:14:22,149 --> 01:14:20,080
there was a white light and then it

1915
01:14:25,990 --> 01:14:22,159
became a red light and then back to

1916
01:14:28,390 --> 01:14:26,000
white and back to red just very slowly

1917
01:14:29,350 --> 01:14:28,400
above the tops of the trees

1918
01:14:31,910 --> 01:14:29,360
moving

1919
01:14:33,910 --> 01:14:31,920
and then at one point it stopped

1920
01:14:37,910 --> 01:14:33,920
and started moving again

1921
01:14:42,870 --> 01:14:40,149
uh and we just stood there and and

1922
01:14:44,950 --> 01:14:42,880
watched it as it came across the field

1923
01:14:46,630 --> 01:14:44,960
getting closer and closer well that

1924
01:14:47,910 --> 01:14:46,640
that's that's actually

1925
01:14:49,350 --> 01:14:47,920
um

1926
01:14:51,189 --> 01:14:49,360
you can keep that one up there for now

1927
01:14:53,030 --> 01:14:51,199
but that's not the one yet but

1928
01:14:54,550 --> 01:14:53,040
that that's good because as it got

1929
01:14:56,950 --> 01:14:54,560
closer to us

1930
01:14:58,550 --> 01:14:56,960
that's kind of what it looked like as it

1931
01:15:00,470 --> 01:14:58,560
got close to us

1932
01:15:02,070 --> 01:15:00,480
and it stopped

1933
01:15:05,270 --> 01:15:02,080
remember it was

1934
01:15:06,390 --> 01:15:05,280
it wasn't just daylight it was darker at

1935
01:15:09,110 --> 01:15:06,400
the time

1936
01:15:11,910 --> 01:15:09,120
it had a row of white lights up one side

1937
01:15:13,750 --> 01:15:11,920
underneath and red lights with a larger

1938
01:15:15,030 --> 01:15:13,760
light at the apex where the two sides

1939
01:15:16,790 --> 01:15:15,040
came together

1940
01:15:18,470 --> 01:15:16,800
and it just hovered there in the air

1941
01:15:20,070 --> 01:15:18,480
above us

1942
01:15:22,470 --> 01:15:20,080
and

1943
01:15:25,189 --> 01:15:22,480
it made no noise there was no sound

1944
01:15:26,310 --> 01:15:25,199
there was no engine no humming nothing

1945
01:15:27,590 --> 01:15:26,320
it just

1946
01:15:29,510 --> 01:15:27,600
sat there

1947
01:15:30,550 --> 01:15:29,520
in the sky above us and i remember

1948
01:15:33,030 --> 01:15:30,560
thinking

1949
01:15:35,750 --> 01:15:33,040
well i feel pretty secure i'm surrounded

1950
01:15:38,310 --> 01:15:35,760
by sheriff's people highway patrolmen

1951
01:15:40,709 --> 01:15:38,320
they got their six shooters

1952
01:15:42,390 --> 01:15:40,719
you know just in case and then a moment

1953
01:15:44,950 --> 01:15:42,400
later i'm thinking wait what what am i

1954
01:15:48,149 --> 01:15:44,960
thinking what am i saying to myself

1955
01:15:50,070 --> 01:15:48,159
how how confident and safe do i feel

1956
01:15:53,350 --> 01:15:50,080
because if whatever we're looking at up

1957
01:15:55,669 --> 01:15:53,360
there is here to eat us

1958
01:15:58,630 --> 01:15:55,679
or to take us away

1959
01:16:01,430 --> 01:15:58,640
to eat us later

1960
01:16:02,310 --> 01:16:01,440
you know um then then you know we've had

1961
01:16:05,189 --> 01:16:02,320
it

1962
01:16:07,990 --> 01:16:05,199
and so i didn't i wasn't scared

1963
01:16:09,830 --> 01:16:08,000
because i was excited about it

1964
01:16:11,430 --> 01:16:09,840
and then and then as we watched it and

1965
01:16:13,270 --> 01:16:11,440
you're getting ready to show the other

1966
01:16:15,270 --> 01:16:13,280
picture that i can't find the other

1967
01:16:16,950 --> 01:16:15,280
picture and i know you sent it to me no

1968
01:16:18,229 --> 01:16:16,960
no i mean you have anywhere you had it

1969
01:16:20,630 --> 01:16:18,239
up before

1970
01:16:22,310 --> 01:16:20,640
at the end of the clips it was there

1971
01:16:25,030 --> 01:16:22,320
were two pictures oh oh this one right

1972
01:16:27,110 --> 01:16:25,040
here okay now okay if you can zoom in on

1973
01:16:29,189 --> 01:16:27,120
i can't zoom in that's oh

1974
01:16:31,030 --> 01:16:29,199
okay there's a painting on the bottom

1975
01:16:34,229 --> 01:16:31,040
right hand corner yeah that kind of

1976
01:16:35,750 --> 01:16:34,239
depicts the situation yeah you can see

1977
01:16:37,350 --> 01:16:35,760
the thing in the sky

1978
01:16:38,229 --> 01:16:37,360
and what what you're seeing there is

1979
01:16:40,470 --> 01:16:38,239
from the

1980
01:16:42,229 --> 01:16:40,480
the the bright light on the top of it it

1981
01:16:44,310 --> 01:16:42,239
shot this beam of light down to the

1982
01:16:46,070 --> 01:16:44,320
ground and in the middle of the ground

1983
01:16:48,310 --> 01:16:46,080
there you can see one of the figures

1984
01:16:49,270 --> 01:16:48,320
there with his arms outstretched that

1985
01:16:51,510 --> 01:16:49,280
was me

1986
01:16:53,189 --> 01:16:51,520
that the the painter dale hendrickson

1987
01:16:55,910 --> 01:16:53,199
painted me there

1988
01:16:57,990 --> 01:16:55,920
to to indicate that that's how close i

1989
01:16:59,830 --> 01:16:58,000
was to this beam of light that hit the

1990
01:17:01,990 --> 01:16:59,840
ground in front of us

1991
01:17:03,750 --> 01:17:02,000
and and the beam of light was only there

1992
01:17:06,229 --> 01:17:03,760
for a couple of seconds

1993
01:17:07,910 --> 01:17:06,239
and then it went back up into

1994
01:17:10,070 --> 01:17:07,920
the craft again

1995
01:17:12,630 --> 01:17:10,080
still no sound then the whole thing

1996
01:17:14,790 --> 01:17:12,640
turned almost like an amber color

1997
01:17:18,229 --> 01:17:14,800
and started moving quickly away in

1998
01:17:20,790 --> 01:17:18,239
another direction the whole thing turned

1999
01:17:23,030 --> 01:17:20,800
yeah it was like it was like

2000
01:17:24,870 --> 01:17:23,040
it's not a good picture but this is uh

2001
01:17:27,510 --> 01:17:24,880
dale uh

2002
01:17:29,990 --> 01:17:27,520
dale hendrickson he's a great guy by the

2003
01:17:31,430 --> 01:17:30,000
way he's an amazing painter of outer

2004
01:17:32,709 --> 01:17:31,440
space

2005
01:17:34,950 --> 01:17:32,719
scenes

2006
01:17:37,669 --> 01:17:34,960
and uh he called me one day a few years

2007
01:17:39,270 --> 01:17:37,679
ago and asked me to describe

2008
01:17:41,669 --> 01:17:39,280
what i thought was the most amazing

2009
01:17:44,390 --> 01:17:41,679
moment of our encounter and i described

2010
01:17:46,950 --> 01:17:44,400
this moment and he said would would you

2011
01:17:49,590 --> 01:17:46,960
like it if i could paint

2012
01:17:52,550 --> 01:17:49,600
that kind of a moment and and maybe

2013
01:17:54,070 --> 01:17:52,560
offer it and show it at ufo conferences

2014
01:17:55,669 --> 01:17:54,080
around the country

2015
01:17:57,669 --> 01:17:55,679
uh and i said yeah i think that would be

2016
01:18:00,470 --> 01:17:57,679
great and i said to him would you like

2017
01:18:03,270 --> 01:18:00,480
it if i connect you with chef sheriff's

2018
01:18:05,350 --> 01:18:03,280
deputy now retired ron thompson who was

2019
01:18:07,110 --> 01:18:05,360
standing next to me when that thing was

2020
01:18:07,990 --> 01:18:07,120
in the sky above us

2021
01:18:09,669 --> 01:18:08,000
because

2022
01:18:11,590 --> 01:18:09,679
let him tell his version of the story

2023
01:18:14,390 --> 01:18:11,600
you might as well get two people talking

2024
01:18:16,630 --> 01:18:14,400
about it and i connected him with ron

2025
01:18:18,310 --> 01:18:16,640
and from both of our stories he came up

2026
01:18:20,630 --> 01:18:18,320
with with that

2027
01:18:22,550 --> 01:18:20,640
uh and it's quite nice i've seen that in

2028
01:18:23,510 --> 01:18:22,560
person here i just found an

2029
01:18:25,270 --> 01:18:23,520
another

2030
01:18:26,790 --> 01:18:25,280
rendition of it but it's it's pretty

2031
01:18:28,950 --> 01:18:26,800
much clear there and you look like the

2032
01:18:30,470 --> 01:18:28,960
guy that looks like serpico right

2033
01:18:32,070 --> 01:18:30,480
yeah yeah

2034
01:18:34,950 --> 01:18:32,080
i think you were told that a few times

2035
01:18:35,750 --> 01:18:34,960
yeah a few times um

2036
01:18:36,550 --> 01:18:35,760
so

2037
01:18:39,910 --> 01:18:36,560
uh

2038
01:18:41,110 --> 01:18:39,920
circo if you if you will because of the

2039
01:18:44,229 --> 01:18:41,120
folk singer

2040
01:18:46,070 --> 01:18:44,239
cat stevens okay oh cat stevens yes

2041
01:18:48,709 --> 01:18:46,080
um that's a little better better of a

2042
01:18:51,110 --> 01:18:48,719
picture of but anyway um that is just an

2043
01:18:53,110 --> 01:18:51,120
amazing story it is it keeps going

2044
01:18:54,470 --> 01:18:53,120
because there was another officer in

2045
01:18:55,990 --> 01:18:54,480
another location

2046
01:18:58,149 --> 01:18:56,000
that got out of his car and flashed a

2047
01:19:00,790 --> 01:18:58,159
light at it or something yeah

2048
01:19:03,590 --> 01:19:00,800
we we kept finding other police officers

2049
01:19:05,430 --> 01:19:03,600
in different counties and uh we stopped

2050
01:19:07,270 --> 01:19:05,440
at one place and found two police

2051
01:19:09,110 --> 01:19:07,280
officers who were out of their car

2052
01:19:10,950 --> 01:19:09,120
and and they they knew that we were

2053
01:19:12,550 --> 01:19:10,960
coming because everybody was connected

2054
01:19:13,990 --> 01:19:12,560
by a police radio

2055
01:19:15,510 --> 01:19:14,000
and they said to me we saw this thing

2056
01:19:17,350 --> 01:19:15,520
coming down the road

2057
01:19:19,189 --> 01:19:17,360
in our direction and it got to a ride

2058
01:19:21,669 --> 01:19:19,199
above our car and without stopping

2059
01:19:24,229 --> 01:19:21,679
without stopping on a dime it made a 90

2060
01:19:25,030 --> 01:19:24,239
degree angle quick turn and went flying

2061
01:19:27,189 --> 01:19:25,040
off

2062
01:19:29,590 --> 01:19:27,199
and i've talked with people who said if

2063
01:19:30,310 --> 01:19:29,600
there was anything living inside this

2064
01:19:32,470 --> 01:19:30,320
thing

2065
01:19:34,390 --> 01:19:32,480
they could not have withstood

2066
01:19:37,189 --> 01:19:34,400
that kind of an immediate

2067
01:19:39,830 --> 01:19:37,199
change of direction but again see we're

2068
01:19:42,070 --> 01:19:39,840
talking this is what we think based on

2069
01:19:44,550 --> 01:19:42,080
our knowledge exactly of how we would

2070
01:19:46,950 --> 01:19:44,560
react in a technology that we don't know

2071
01:19:49,030 --> 01:19:46,960
anything about one thing i'd like to ask

2072
01:19:51,430 --> 01:19:49,040
you lee do you think there was

2073
01:19:53,430 --> 01:19:51,440
uh just because it's something i i i

2074
01:19:55,430 --> 01:19:53,440
hear now and then

2075
01:19:57,590 --> 01:19:55,440
and it's probably a kind of a weird

2076
01:20:01,270 --> 01:19:57,600
thing to say but do you feel there was

2077
01:20:02,390 --> 01:20:01,280
any time dilation of any kind no not not

2078
01:20:04,950 --> 01:20:02,400
that i

2079
01:20:06,790 --> 01:20:04,960
either know of or ever experienced i

2080
01:20:10,629 --> 01:20:06,800
don't think anyone else

2081
01:20:11,669 --> 01:20:10,639
did either i think

2082
01:20:14,149 --> 01:20:11,679
uh

2083
01:20:16,310 --> 01:20:14,159
the whole idea

2084
01:20:18,310 --> 01:20:16,320
of of what we experienced and it wasn't

2085
01:20:19,910 --> 01:20:18,320
just that night i was there maybe on the

2086
01:20:21,750 --> 01:20:19,920
third or fourth night

2087
01:20:23,430 --> 01:20:21,760
when this was happening

2088
01:20:25,189 --> 01:20:23,440
i i often like

2089
01:20:26,950 --> 01:20:25,199
people will often ask me why don't the

2090
01:20:28,629 --> 01:20:26,960
ufos just show themselves everywhere and

2091
01:20:30,709 --> 01:20:28,639
just you know appear over the cities

2092
01:20:33,350 --> 01:20:30,719
like in war of the worlds or

2093
01:20:34,470 --> 01:20:33,360
you know or or independence day or

2094
01:20:36,870 --> 01:20:34,480
whatever

2095
01:20:39,030 --> 01:20:36,880
and and and i keep saying to people

2096
01:20:39,910 --> 01:20:39,040
well they have been showing themselves a

2097
01:20:43,189 --> 01:20:39,920
lot

2098
01:20:46,070 --> 01:20:43,199
and and my response to them is

2099
01:20:48,149 --> 01:20:46,080
if the ufos didn't want to be seen

2100
01:20:50,310 --> 01:20:48,159
especially at night all they have to do

2101
01:20:53,750 --> 01:20:50,320
is turn their lights off

2102
01:20:56,229 --> 01:20:53,760
i mean you know and end of topic but

2103
01:20:58,310 --> 01:20:56,239
they want to be seen

2104
01:20:59,750 --> 01:20:58,320
they know they're being seen how could

2105
01:21:02,390 --> 01:20:59,760
they not

2106
01:21:04,629 --> 01:21:02,400
they they know what they're doing

2107
01:21:07,590 --> 01:21:04,639
and they've always known throughout

2108
01:21:10,550 --> 01:21:07,600
history they they're not trying to hide

2109
01:21:14,229 --> 01:21:10,560
from humans they know what they're doing

2110
01:21:16,390 --> 01:21:14,239
for whatever their reasons

2111
01:21:18,390 --> 01:21:16,400
i mean really yeah

2112
01:21:21,510 --> 01:21:18,400
i can't think of any other way to to

2113
01:21:23,110 --> 01:21:21,520
respond to that and so i think that

2114
01:21:24,629 --> 01:21:23,120
wherever they show up

2115
01:21:26,790 --> 01:21:24,639
you know they showed up they hovered

2116
01:21:29,350 --> 01:21:26,800
above us shot a beam of light down as if

2117
01:21:31,430 --> 01:21:29,360
as if to say when the beam went back up

2118
01:21:33,990 --> 01:21:31,440
and it turned and went away it was as if

2119
01:21:35,110 --> 01:21:34,000
it was saying to us yeah okay i'm done

2120
01:21:37,830 --> 01:21:35,120
with you guys i'm going to go screw

2121
01:21:40,470 --> 01:21:37,840
around with someone else now so we after

2122
01:21:44,149 --> 01:21:40,480
it went after it left i found

2123
01:21:47,350 --> 01:21:44,159
a police chief um sitting in his car

2124
01:21:48,870 --> 01:21:47,360
um beside the road and he knew i was

2125
01:21:50,550 --> 01:21:48,880
coming to ask him some questions so i

2126
01:21:52,310 --> 01:21:50,560
asked him i understand you had a little

2127
01:21:54,629 --> 01:21:52,320
excitement here

2128
01:21:56,790 --> 01:21:54,639
he said yeah i was sitting in the car

2129
01:21:59,350 --> 01:21:56,800
eating my sandwich and the whole inside

2130
01:22:01,110 --> 01:21:59,360
of my car was lit up with some

2131
01:22:03,350 --> 01:22:01,120
bright light

2132
01:22:04,629 --> 01:22:03,360
i said what did you do he said i i

2133
01:22:06,310 --> 01:22:04,639
looked out

2134
01:22:09,350 --> 01:22:06,320
looked up at the sky and there was this

2135
01:22:12,229 --> 01:22:09,360
thing parked in the sky right above my

2136
01:22:14,790 --> 01:22:12,239
car and made me think although no i was

2137
01:22:16,629 --> 01:22:14,800
going to say it made me think of

2138
01:22:18,390 --> 01:22:16,639
the the moment in close encounters of

2139
01:22:20,550 --> 01:22:18,400
the third kind when richard dreyfuss is

2140
01:22:22,830 --> 01:22:20,560
in his truck yeah and he does that but

2141
01:22:25,990 --> 01:22:22,840
then i realized no

2142
01:22:27,669 --> 01:22:26,000
1975 lumberton that was two years before

2143
01:22:30,550 --> 01:22:27,679
the movie came out

2144
01:22:33,910 --> 01:22:30,560
exactly yeah and this police officer was

2145
01:22:35,430 --> 01:22:33,920
doing that looking up yeah uh and so i

2146
01:22:38,229 --> 01:22:35,440
said to him what did you do then he said

2147
01:22:40,390 --> 01:22:38,239
well i reached the back of the car

2148
01:22:42,070 --> 01:22:40,400
pulled out we had this official whenever

2149
01:22:44,550 --> 01:22:42,080
there's uh we need like an official

2150
01:22:46,149 --> 01:22:44,560
light for any emergencies on the roads

2151
01:22:49,510 --> 01:22:46,159
we have this big police

2152
01:22:51,510 --> 01:22:49,520
lantern and i aimed it up at the thing

2153
01:22:53,669 --> 01:22:51,520
and i blinked at it

2154
01:22:55,430 --> 01:22:53,679
and it blinked back at me

2155
01:22:58,310 --> 01:22:55,440
you know how many times i've heard that

2156
01:23:00,629 --> 01:22:58,320
you heard that father gill case oh yes

2157
01:23:01,350 --> 01:23:00,639
that so many times from papua new guinea

2158
01:23:04,149 --> 01:23:01,360
yes

2159
01:23:06,070 --> 01:23:04,159
there's one case where i heard of

2160
01:23:08,070 --> 01:23:06,080
i was speaking about this recently on

2161
01:23:11,350 --> 01:23:08,080
the show where

2162
01:23:12,709 --> 01:23:11,360
the person was doing like the flashing

2163
01:23:14,629 --> 01:23:12,719
and then

2164
01:23:16,149 --> 01:23:14,639
he thought all right now i'm thinking

2165
01:23:18,070 --> 01:23:16,159
i'm going to flash

2166
01:23:19,910 --> 01:23:18,080
and the thing reacted to it that's

2167
01:23:21,510 --> 01:23:19,920
reacted to him thinking about it that

2168
01:23:23,110 --> 01:23:21,520
you know when i say that's funny i don't

2169
01:23:25,910 --> 01:23:23,120
really mean it's funny

2170
01:23:28,550 --> 01:23:25,920
there are so many cases

2171
01:23:31,510 --> 01:23:28,560
uh maybe maybe we didn't know about

2172
01:23:32,790 --> 01:23:31,520
these cases in earlier years but now you

2173
01:23:37,270 --> 01:23:32,800
hear about

2174
01:23:39,350 --> 01:23:37,280
where a lot of the ufo phenomenon

2175
01:23:41,030 --> 01:23:39,360
is tied into

2176
01:23:43,750 --> 01:23:41,040
the paranormal

2177
01:23:45,189 --> 01:23:43,760
yeah yeah uh and things that people

2178
01:23:47,030 --> 01:23:45,199
describe

2179
01:23:50,149 --> 01:23:47,040
like that that involves thought

2180
01:23:51,510 --> 01:23:50,159
processes or consciousness

2181
01:23:53,430 --> 01:23:51,520
uh and

2182
01:23:56,470 --> 01:23:53,440
and more and more of these stories are

2183
01:23:58,550 --> 01:23:56,480
coming out that that says to me people

2184
01:24:01,430 --> 01:23:58,560
aren't just making this stuff up they're

2185
01:24:03,590 --> 01:24:01,440
really experiencing things

2186
01:24:06,229 --> 01:24:03,600
that have like nothing to do

2187
01:24:08,790 --> 01:24:06,239
with what they're seeing it has a whole

2188
01:24:10,709 --> 01:24:08,800
other possibility

2189
01:24:13,189 --> 01:24:10,719
there were stories that came out of the

2190
01:24:15,350 --> 01:24:13,199
1980 rendelstrom forest

2191
01:24:18,310 --> 01:24:15,360
encounter

2192
01:24:20,870 --> 01:24:18,320
of the bentwaters case where so many

2193
01:24:22,709 --> 01:24:20,880
military eyewitnesses saw things

2194
01:24:24,470 --> 01:24:22,719
in and out of the forest and there were

2195
01:24:26,070 --> 01:24:24,480
reports that some of them saw something

2196
01:24:28,629 --> 01:24:26,080
that was on the ground and

2197
01:24:29,669 --> 01:24:28,639
some claims that some of the military

2198
01:24:32,229 --> 01:24:29,679
personnel

2199
01:24:33,910 --> 01:24:32,239
got close to the object and and what the

2200
01:24:35,910 --> 01:24:33,920
closer they got to it

2201
01:24:38,470 --> 01:24:35,920
it the thing moved out of the way

2202
01:24:39,669 --> 01:24:38,480
it didn't fly out of the way it just

2203
01:24:41,750 --> 01:24:39,679
moved away

2204
01:24:43,590 --> 01:24:41,760
like a living thing would just move and

2205
01:24:45,189 --> 01:24:43,600
didn't want to be touched

2206
01:24:47,910 --> 01:24:45,199
like whoa

2207
01:24:49,270 --> 01:24:47,920
so what are we dealing with here there's

2208
01:24:50,070 --> 01:24:49,280
a lot more

2209
01:24:51,189 --> 01:24:50,080
to

2210
01:24:54,709 --> 01:24:51,199
just

2211
01:24:57,110 --> 01:24:54,719
something that looks like a flying

2212
01:24:59,830 --> 01:24:57,120
saucer or a dorito

2213
01:25:03,830 --> 01:24:59,840
there's something more happening here

2214
01:25:06,709 --> 01:25:05,430
there's a big part of me now that's

2215
01:25:09,669 --> 01:25:06,719
thinking

2216
01:25:11,910 --> 01:25:09,679
maybe this is the reason why

2217
01:25:15,189 --> 01:25:11,920
the governments of the world haven't

2218
01:25:16,950 --> 01:25:15,199
been entirely honest or totally

2219
01:25:18,310 --> 01:25:16,960
transparent

2220
01:25:21,270 --> 01:25:18,320
with the public

2221
01:25:22,629 --> 01:25:21,280
about what's going on because maybe

2222
01:25:25,590 --> 01:25:22,639
this is a little

2223
01:25:27,510 --> 01:25:25,600
more serious than what most people would

2224
01:25:29,510 --> 01:25:27,520
be able to handle

2225
01:25:30,870 --> 01:25:29,520
i never used to think that

2226
01:25:33,430 --> 01:25:30,880
you know it's it's that whole thing well

2227
01:25:35,510 --> 01:25:33,440
with the will the public panic

2228
01:25:39,510 --> 01:25:35,520
i i don't know if panic is the right

2229
01:25:42,870 --> 01:25:39,520
word but will is is the public ready

2230
01:25:44,390 --> 01:25:42,880
to be told what's really behind the

2231
01:25:45,750 --> 01:25:44,400
phenomenon

2232
01:25:49,510 --> 01:25:45,760
do you think they do you think they

2233
01:25:52,070 --> 01:25:49,520
actually know though i i think that

2234
01:25:54,790 --> 01:25:52,080
the governments of the world

2235
01:25:57,189 --> 01:25:54,800
know more than they're saying uh there

2236
01:25:58,149 --> 01:25:57,199
are probably no more than we do yes

2237
01:25:59,990 --> 01:25:58,159
yeah

2238
01:26:01,510 --> 01:26:00,000
but i think that there

2239
01:26:03,030 --> 01:26:01,520
could be a reason

2240
01:26:05,030 --> 01:26:03,040
why

2241
01:26:06,470 --> 01:26:05,040
they're not saying anything more about

2242
01:26:09,189 --> 01:26:06,480
it

2243
01:26:12,310 --> 01:26:09,199
because because once one

2244
01:26:14,149 --> 01:26:12,320
leader of some major country goes

2245
01:26:16,070 --> 01:26:14,159
forward and says oh we're going to just

2246
01:26:19,110 --> 01:26:16,080
release this well then the cat's all out

2247
01:26:20,950 --> 01:26:19,120
of the bag the the pandora's box is open

2248
01:26:22,470 --> 01:26:20,960
and and then what do you do

2249
01:26:24,550 --> 01:26:22,480
then how do you

2250
01:26:26,390 --> 01:26:24,560
respond how is it going to affect

2251
01:26:29,189 --> 01:26:26,400
religion what does the vatican think

2252
01:26:31,189 --> 01:26:29,199
about this why does the vatican have two

2253
01:26:33,430 --> 01:26:31,199
different places where they have

2254
01:26:36,550 --> 01:26:33,440
astronomical observatories and they have

2255
01:26:39,430 --> 01:26:36,560
teams of vatican astronomers and quite

2256
01:26:40,629 --> 01:26:39,440
amazing looking looking looking into the

2257
01:26:43,030 --> 01:26:40,639
heavens

2258
01:26:44,070 --> 01:26:43,040
what are you looking for why

2259
01:26:45,990 --> 01:26:44,080
yeah

2260
01:26:47,910 --> 01:26:46,000
come on i mean

2261
01:26:49,750 --> 01:26:47,920
someone's got to ask these questions and

2262
01:26:52,310 --> 01:26:49,760
that's my job

2263
01:26:54,709 --> 01:26:52,320
it seems to me that i either had someone

2264
01:26:57,750 --> 01:26:54,719
or i spoke with someone one of the

2265
01:26:59,030 --> 01:26:57,760
astronomers at one time um i don't think

2266
01:27:01,430 --> 01:26:59,040
i had him on the show i think i'd

2267
01:27:02,950 --> 01:27:01,440
remember that but i was trying to i

2268
01:27:04,870 --> 01:27:02,960
believe which would be really

2269
01:27:07,590 --> 01:27:04,880
fascinating um and that's it somewhere

2270
01:27:08,870 --> 01:27:07,600
in the united states that particular uh

2271
01:27:11,590 --> 01:27:08,880
telescope

2272
01:27:13,830 --> 01:27:11,600
is arizona it's arizona yeah yeah it's

2273
01:27:16,950 --> 01:27:13,840
on the zona mountain in arizona

2274
01:27:19,270 --> 01:27:16,960
um i i just think it's all fascinating

2275
01:27:20,709 --> 01:27:19,280
i i i think

2276
01:27:22,790 --> 01:27:20,719
that

2277
01:27:24,950 --> 01:27:22,800
i'm going to have colonel chuck halt is

2278
01:27:27,110 --> 01:27:24,960
going to be on my show on thursday night

2279
01:27:28,470 --> 01:27:27,120
yeah he was one of the primary witnesses

2280
01:27:31,430 --> 01:27:28,480
at the randallstrom

2281
01:27:33,110 --> 01:27:31,440
encounter in 1980 and and he's going to

2282
01:27:35,189 --> 01:27:33,120
talk about how

2283
01:27:36,629 --> 01:27:35,199
he believes that there is

2284
01:27:38,070 --> 01:27:36,639
a slow

2285
01:27:40,310 --> 01:27:38,080
disclosure

2286
01:27:42,790 --> 01:27:40,320
going on and i'm going to say to him

2287
01:27:43,990 --> 01:27:42,800
okay but who's in charge of how slow

2288
01:27:46,709 --> 01:27:44,000
should this be

2289
01:27:49,830 --> 01:27:46,719
what will determine when the slowness of

2290
01:27:52,950 --> 01:27:51,350
great questions i can't wait to watch

2291
01:27:55,030 --> 01:27:52,960
that i've had charles on a number of

2292
01:27:57,350 --> 01:27:55,040
times and uh yeah i hope to have him

2293
01:28:00,390 --> 01:27:57,360
back he's he's always uh he's always a

2294
01:28:03,110 --> 01:28:00,400
great guest he's got a lot to say yes

2295
01:28:05,030 --> 01:28:03,120
and and he doesn't mind the controversy

2296
01:28:07,750 --> 01:28:05,040
of what he has to say

2297
01:28:09,189 --> 01:28:07,760
and uh and i i appreciate that i respect

2298
01:28:11,669 --> 01:28:09,199
him for that and he's one of these

2299
01:28:14,550 --> 01:28:11,679
people that wish it never happened

2300
01:28:17,030 --> 01:28:14,560
yeah he's very sincere about that yeah

2301
01:28:19,110 --> 01:28:17,040
so uh because he didn't need it as a

2302
01:28:20,790 --> 01:28:19,120
part of his life and he he's told me

2303
01:28:23,110 --> 01:28:20,800
that he's put it away

2304
01:28:25,189 --> 01:28:23,120
uh for a while sometimes you know kind

2305
01:28:27,350 --> 01:28:25,199
of put it off so he didn't have to deal

2306
01:28:29,590 --> 01:28:27,360
with it but it always he always comes

2307
01:28:32,310 --> 01:28:29,600
back to it it always comes back to him

2308
01:28:34,709 --> 01:28:32,320
actually he told me decades ago when we

2309
01:28:36,870 --> 01:28:34,719
first met he said to me

2310
01:28:39,030 --> 01:28:36,880
all that i will tell you right now is

2311
01:28:40,950 --> 01:28:39,040
that when when the truth finally comes

2312
01:28:44,229 --> 01:28:40,960
out and the public is told what's really

2313
01:28:45,830 --> 01:28:44,239
going on it's going to change reality as

2314
01:28:48,229 --> 01:28:45,840
we know it

2315
01:28:50,470 --> 01:28:48,239
and when he said that to me i went okay

2316
01:28:52,229 --> 01:28:50,480
i accept that and that's a great way to

2317
01:28:55,270 --> 01:28:52,239
end this even interview

2318
01:28:58,229 --> 01:28:55,280
with with him but it was like wow and i

2319
01:28:59,590 --> 01:28:58,239
believe that i think that it will change

2320
01:29:01,990 --> 01:28:59,600
reality

2321
01:29:03,750 --> 01:29:02,000
and and maybe he's right that it'll have

2322
01:29:05,669 --> 01:29:03,760
to be it must be

2323
01:29:07,590 --> 01:29:05,679
slow disclosure

2324
01:29:08,870 --> 01:29:07,600
but you know on the other end of that

2325
01:29:11,750 --> 01:29:08,880
what is it that they're going to

2326
01:29:12,870 --> 01:29:11,760
disclose that requires it to happen

2327
01:29:14,310 --> 01:29:12,880
slowly

2328
01:29:17,990 --> 01:29:14,320
you know i don't know yet

2329
01:29:19,669 --> 01:29:18,000
yeah yeah uh i think also someone

2330
01:29:22,390 --> 01:29:19,679
said something like that and i'm trying

2331
01:29:24,550 --> 01:29:22,400
to remember lou elizondo said it's been

2332
01:29:26,950 --> 01:29:24,560
happening you know i mean and i know you

2333
01:29:28,629 --> 01:29:26,960
you recently i had a meeting with him

2334
01:29:31,030 --> 01:29:28,639
yeah i know you can't really talk about

2335
01:29:34,950 --> 01:29:31,040
that but anyway uh

2336
01:29:36,550 --> 01:29:34,960
i i think it's interesting and i i feel

2337
01:29:38,870 --> 01:29:36,560
definitely that there's been a lot of

2338
01:29:41,270 --> 01:29:38,880
changes in the i've been doing this for

2339
01:29:43,430 --> 01:29:41,280
over 10 years in the last three years

2340
01:29:45,590 --> 01:29:43,440
has been some major changes

2341
01:29:48,310 --> 01:29:45,600
and and the attitude in general it's an

2342
01:29:50,310 --> 01:29:48,320
easy topic to talk about these days yeah

2343
01:29:51,430 --> 01:29:50,320
nothing you want to worry too much about

2344
01:29:52,950 --> 01:29:51,440
um

2345
01:29:55,430 --> 01:29:52,960
talking about and being embarrassed

2346
01:29:56,629 --> 01:29:55,440
about and i like that i like that a lot

2347
01:29:58,709 --> 01:29:56,639
because i don't

2348
01:30:00,149 --> 01:29:58,719
feel like the total odd uncle or

2349
01:30:02,390 --> 01:30:00,159
whatever you want to say you know the

2350
01:30:04,390 --> 01:30:02,400
oddball um

2351
01:30:06,390 --> 01:30:04,400
in in a conversation

2352
01:30:08,229 --> 01:30:06,400
i've always thought of you as my oddball

2353
01:30:09,910 --> 01:30:08,239
uh uncle nephew

2354
01:30:11,270 --> 01:30:09,920
or nephew

2355
01:30:13,270 --> 01:30:11,280
that's true that's right that's right

2356
01:30:14,790 --> 01:30:13,280
i'd be the uncle yeah that's right yeah

2357
01:30:18,229 --> 01:30:14,800
that's right you're just a little older

2358
01:30:20,229 --> 01:30:18,239
hey lee um so uh we're at the uh i told

2359
01:30:22,310 --> 01:30:20,239
you an hour and a half tonight and okay

2360
01:30:24,709 --> 01:30:22,320
so we're at the end of that and so how

2361
01:30:26,629 --> 01:30:24,719
uh and did you say halt is coming up

2362
01:30:28,709 --> 01:30:26,639
this thursday this thursday night all

2363
01:30:31,270 --> 01:30:28,719
right so tell people how they can get a

2364
01:30:33,830 --> 01:30:31,280
hold of that and watch that uh okay well

2365
01:30:35,270 --> 01:30:33,840
it's going to be on um all they have to

2366
01:30:37,270 --> 01:30:35,280
do is go to

2367
01:30:39,590 --> 01:30:37,280
on x network

2368
01:30:42,149 --> 01:30:39,600
dot com that's unx

2369
01:30:44,550 --> 01:30:42,159
network dot com

2370
01:30:45,830 --> 01:30:44,560
and they do forward slash

2371
01:30:47,669 --> 01:30:45,840
stream

2372
01:30:51,110 --> 01:30:47,679
s-t-r-e-a-m

2373
01:30:52,950 --> 01:30:51,120
so it's it's like on x network dot com

2374
01:30:56,310 --> 01:30:52,960
forward slash stream

2375
01:30:58,229 --> 01:30:56,320
that will take them directly to the page

2376
01:30:59,990 --> 01:30:58,239
that is the page where you can just

2377
01:31:02,629 --> 01:31:00,000
click on the play button and hear

2378
01:31:03,830 --> 01:31:02,639
whatever is on the air live at that

2379
01:31:04,709 --> 01:31:03,840
moment

2380
01:31:06,790 --> 01:31:04,719
yes

2381
01:31:08,470 --> 01:31:06,800
so it's seven o'clock seven o'clock from

2382
01:31:10,310 --> 01:31:08,480
seven to eight thirty

2383
01:31:14,629 --> 01:31:10,320
thursday and that's seven eight thirty

2384
01:31:16,550 --> 01:31:14,639
eastern time that's right lee um i i've

2385
01:31:18,070 --> 01:31:16,560
really enjoyed our friendship over these

2386
01:31:20,310 --> 01:31:18,080
years as everyone always have

2387
01:31:23,110 --> 01:31:20,320
fascinating guests i love having you on

2388
01:31:25,590 --> 01:31:23,120
and uh i wish you all all the best and

2389
01:31:27,990 --> 01:31:25,600
please do let us know when and how that

2390
01:31:29,669 --> 01:31:28,000
album will be available i will

2391
01:31:31,189 --> 01:31:29,679
get the word out there

2392
01:31:33,590 --> 01:31:31,199
thank you thank you so much for having

2393
01:31:35,669 --> 01:31:33,600
me on tonight i love talking about this

2394
01:31:40,550 --> 01:31:35,679
stuff yes you do i hope i don't come

2395
01:31:45,110 --> 01:31:42,790
i don't think i'll get that feedback no

2396
01:31:46,870 --> 01:31:45,120
but anyway uh all my best to you and

2397
01:31:49,830 --> 01:31:46,880
thank you so much thank you thank you

2398
01:31:52,149 --> 01:31:49,840
martin all right take care bye

2399
01:31:53,270 --> 01:31:52,159
all right everyone so again next week we

2400
01:31:55,910 --> 01:31:53,280
will have

2401
01:31:58,470 --> 01:31:55,920
um let's see frank marcis he's the

2402
01:32:00,709 --> 01:31:58,480
senior planetary astronomer at the seti

2403
01:32:03,510 --> 01:32:00,719
institute again the start time is going

2404
01:32:05,830 --> 01:32:03,520
to be uh seven as it was tonight and

2405
01:32:07,750 --> 01:32:05,840
thank you all for watching and anyone

2406
01:32:08,990 --> 01:32:07,760
can support the show

2407
01:32:10,709 --> 01:32:09,000
and that's over at

2408
01:32:12,950 --> 01:32:10,719
podcastufo.com

2409
01:32:15,110 --> 01:32:12,960
to support the show and and i would

2410
01:32:16,950 --> 01:32:15,120
appreciate that and do appreciate all

2411
01:32:19,030 --> 01:32:16,960
the listeners and i appreciate everyone

2412
01:32:21,350 --> 01:32:19,040
that does support the show and we'll see

2413
01:32:24,520 --> 01:32:21,360
you next week remember to keep your eyes

2414
01:32:33,070 --> 01:32:24,530
to the sky